Yoo tell mee. Particularly in Inglish, whare fonettics have bean thrown out the window sow fahr that thay mite as well have landed on Marz, is brayl still useful?
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In the above sentence, I snuck in an abundance of spelling mistakes that, when read by text to speech, will either be or not be picked up depending on the TTS voice you're using. This alone is an argument for braille being useful; when learning English or indeed any language, if there's a significant difference between the way one spells and the way one speaks, it's going to be absolute hell to keep the differences straight if you can't look at things in writing, or in this case braille.
I can certainly see how technology has in some ways made braille less commonplace, particularly through the advent of smartphones, bu there is still a huge amount of applications where it is still very much relevant and necessary.
SeeSawPodcast [OP]2 points1y ago
100% agree. Very valid points that we'll bring up on next weeks feedback.
MostlyBlindGamer8 points1y ago
Is paper still useful? Well, there you have it.
thatawkwardcosplayer7 points1y ago
Yes?? Without Braille I would absolutely walk into the wrong bathroom (especially at airports!!) and not be able to use an elevator. I don’t know a lot of Braille but I know what I need to navigate a very abled society.
I would love to learn more but I work as a dishwasher and my hands have been in harsh Chemicals & heat for too long, my sensitivity is all gone. I do wish there was a way to make Braille work better for people like me whose job directly impacts the ability to read it.
I also work long hours (6-10 at min) a day because of having a restaurant job, I don’t have time to practice or learn when I’m also doing college. (Which offered me absolutely no Braille versions of the book and one professor told me that it was up to me to make the book accessible like gee thanks….tldr; mcgrawhill sucks.)
Braille is also expensive to print and often times libraries simply can’t afford a lot of them. My local library has some Braille books but uh. They’re basic children books with simple stories OR Good Omens / PJO series or guardias of Ga’hoole. Those are the only “adult” options.
There also isn’t any schools!!!!!!!! At all!!!!! Where I live!! Or private tutors even. I’d have to learn completely on my own which difficult with brain damage.
Tldr; yes Braille is important but it’s becoming inaccessible to the people who need it because of abled people assuming we don’t need it anymore due to technology.
CloudyBeep2 points1y ago
In many countries, it is illegal for your college to not provide you with accessible versions of books. You should not need to make books accessible yourself.
Most countries have libraries for the blind with thousands of braille books. Where do you live?
There are many braille correspondence courses. If you tell us where you live, we can recommend options.
thatawkwardcosplayer2 points1y ago
In NY, US. Thousands of books?? The library shelf has about 30~ books but maybe 10? Of them are more middle to highschool.
College said I didn’t qualify for Braille books because I wasn’t “proficient enough” as often, you must prove it’s the ONLY way you can read it to have it. (Same with government papers!)
instead I get online versions that don’t really work well with screen readers or alt text. (Cough, mcgrawhill, cough) oh and they’re over $100-$200 and noooo physical copy at all. College textbooks are the worst.
CloudyBeep1 points1y ago
Library: Check out https://loc.gov/nls
Colleges aren't allowed to decline an accessibility request for that reason. Nor are they allowed to give you an inaccessible alternative. You can get legal advice and support from the National Federation of the Blind, who take on such cases far too often.
You can improve your braille through correspondence courses offered by the Hadley Institute for the Blind and Visually Impaired.
I'm happy to provide further advice and information at any point. Never settle for "inaccessible" or "inadequate".
thatawkwardcosplayer2 points1y ago
Oh!! I had no idea that wasn’t allowed? My parents told me that it was and I just assumed that they had actually researched it. The main problem I have with the books is that it’s math and they often don’t….explain the graph? I’ll be contacting the NFB immediately tomorrow. I’ve had more than my fair share of issues with college books or even basic accommodations.
Thank you for the resource for learning, I had no idea that was a thing at all! Would it be alright if I dmd you to ask more questions?
retrolental_morose6 points1y ago
More so, with technology, I'd say.
I've read far more widely with refreshable Braille than I ever did on paper, and despite having access to displays for a fair few years now, the boot-time, portability and feature-set of devices means that it wasn't until something like the Orbit Reader came along that I had a truly useful version of a digital pencil and paper to jot down notes.
CosmicBunny974 points1y ago
I'm a self-proclaimed bit of a Braille nerd, so yes. I find I memorise easier with Braille (to some extent) and it's useful for spelling or typing on your phone with a Braille display, for example. I've also got a set of Braille die I play D&D with and a Braille labeller to help me label objects (prescriptions, Christmas gifts, makeup for example). So, personally, I find Braille very useful and I'm grateful I'm learning it.
SeeSawPodcast [OP]1 points1y ago
Braille for D&D is a great use!
CosmicBunny971 points1y ago
It is. Considering having a Braille character sheet with key points just for quick reference too.
r_12354 points1y ago
Hmm, I mostly try to avoid braille, useful it may be. But, those, bulky books, flimsy papers, clunky writing instruments have no place in my bag unless I have no alternatives.
I agree on point that it's very useful for learning languages, and, any screen reader user will agree that spellings are a big mess for ya if you are not consciously working towards it.
Another place where it's useful is public signage, although Covid makes me paranoid about touching those things. Further, tactile maps are way simple if you know braille.
Next, I think braille has massive potential for learning math, but, not sure if there's proper standard for those advance math symbols. And, those fancy braille displays have to stop being complex geeky things, and start being everyday afordable gadgets.
The thing is that it's lack of portability, the fact that other sighted peers can't understand it, and rise of very efficient affordable assistive tech has made it more or less redundant, at least for me.
It is massively useful and relevant for our deaf blind friends though, and probably for some other disabilities may be.
SeeSawPodcast [OP]1 points1y ago
Very well argued. I'll add your points to our feedback to share next week.
Great point on the mobility side of things, I think we all have enough to carry without a Perkins!
oncenightvaler3 points1y ago
Braille is useful, but it changed with the times. First there was the Braille embosser, along with translation software. Then people created the Refreshable Braille Display screen. I still have a lot of hard copy Braille books and use my Braille screen every day.
Disclaimer: I first learned Braille from ages like 6-10, and am totally blind, but I think anyone to whom Braille was useful twenty years ago it's useful for now.
SeeSawPodcast [OP]1 points1y ago
I also learnt braille at a young age but don't use it any more. I suppose my thought is that for a blind child today is there much value in teaching them braille, and if they aren't interested should it be pushed on them.
CosmicBunny972 points1y ago
Personally, I think blind kids should learn braille. It helps greatly with spelling and grammar. The only issue I've heard about is ensuring that they learn the full word for contractions - spelling "friend" for fr, for example. This wouldn't be done all the time, just while they're learning the contractions. Admittedly, I don't know what it's like to learn braille at a young age and whether they teach you that, I only began learning in 2020. Overall, braille literacy is important and should be the equivalent of teaching a sighted child print literacy, at least in my opinion.
bradley222 points1y ago
For me, I can read it but prefer TTS and I think I always will.
Odd-Tie63082 points1y ago
The technology argument could also mean learning to read/write print letters isn't useful in 2022 anymore tbh
the-cat15132 points1y ago
Braille keyboards in the style of the old soft braille keyboard are a marvel that should be perpetuated forever and ever. So yes, I think that in addition to all the reasons already mentioned, braille is and will continue to be useful.
TechnicalPragmatist1 points1y ago
I am a blind stem student. Without braille stem would be really difficult. For sure. Also it helps people be literate and read. Honestly. Without braille traditional sense of the word reading would not be possible. I find that I understand stuff much more if I read it in braille.
Is big braille volumes necessary in 2022 well yeah, maybe. Meh, but is braille necessary absolutely. We have braille displays and can cut down on the huge braille volumes but that’s very different then getting rid of braille, getting rid of braille entirely is something else, but we can shift to a different modality
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