Bring your karma
Join the waitlist today
HUMBLECAT.ORG

Blind and Visually Impaired Community

Full History - 2022 - 01 - 14 - ID#s44x6b
8
Guide dog with remaining vision (self.Blind)
submitted by yoyo2718
Can legally blind people who don’t use their cane full time use guide dogs, or are guide dogs reserved for those who always need a cane when they leave their house? Like, how much vision is too much for most guide dog schools?

This is somewhat curiosity on my part, but I’m also curious how this may apply to my own situation going forward. Tia
AllHarlowsEve 8 points 1y ago
I've known multiple people who're legally blind but could still theoretically get around without a cane who've gotten guide dogs. To get one from a school, though, I know the majority require you to demonstrate that you have good orientation and mobility skills with a cane.
yoyo2718 [OP] 2 points 1y ago
Good to know, thanks.
Tarnagona 6 points 1y ago
I don’t have a guide dog yet, but am low vision and plan to apply for one in future. Right now I live in the tiniest apartment with no room for a dog.

People who are low vision can have a guide dog but there are a couple things to consider.

1. You’ve got to let the dog do their job. It’s easy for a dog to develop bad habits or get sloppy if they aren’t continually practicing their skills. For someone with some vision, it’s easier to countermand the dog and decide to go where your vision suggests. Then the dog learns they don’t really have to work as much, so they don’t.

2. You need to have work for the dog. For example, right now I work from home, and only go out a couple times a week. That’s not enough work for a guide. But if I was going in to work every day, so I’m going out most days, then it would be.

3. A guide dog is not a substitute for good orientation and mobility. The dog follows your directions but you still need to navigate yourself. That’s why guide dog schools generally insist you have good cane skills before considering you for a dog. They want to know you’ll be able to find your way around with your dog (and also have something to fall back on if the dog can’t work). I think it also helps reassure them that you’re active enough to have lots of work for the dog to do.

This is what I’ve learned about getting a dog from a guide dog school. I don’t know anything about training your own dog. But I do know that a guide dog goes through almost two years of training and socialization, so the schools want to make sure their dogs are going to the people who will benefit most from them.
yoyo2718 [OP] 3 points 1y ago
That makes sense, thanks. I was trying to figure out if a dog would be appropriate for me in the future or not. All good points to consider.
MaplePaws 5 points 1y ago
I am not legally blind and to put it bluntly my optometrists have been utterly useless. "Her acuity is 20/20". Meanwhile that was in a dark room with effectively a spoon with holes and 15 minutes of me trying to focus on the top line of the chart but I have 20/20 vision. To say the least I realized I was not getting any assistance from them, despite the fact that the previous doctor was going to test me for a glaucoma but the new ones are just dismissing it because 20/20 acuity. Anyways as I already had a service dog for other reasons I ended up training to do guide work all on my own, I also have a 4 month old German Shepherd puppy that will hopefully be learning guide work when he is old enough. You might end up having to train the dog yourself but dependent on where you live it is possibly legal to do.
DHamlinMusic 3 points 1y ago
To the dog portion of this, don't you love it when doctors are incompetent. I had an ophthalmologist tell me that what vision I do have is all a fabrication of my mind, this was during an appointment I had made to get a second opinion as my neuro ophthalmologist basically just told me to fuck off in less direct a fashion so all I was looking for was an idea of what the visible condition of the back of my eyes was not a indictment of my limited vision. The low vision ophthalmologist I saw later on completely agrees I have some vision my peripheral is there to a minimal extent, my central vision is probably not there to any extent.
MaplePaws 2 points 1y ago
Sadly it is not just my eyes that I have dealt with incompetent doctors. I have multiple disabilities and all of them it was a fight to get anyone to take my symptoms seriously. Despite the nearly decade of fighting we have only gotten assistance with about a third of them. At this rate I am completely convinced I will have lost much more vision before anyone bothers to take notice of what I have been telling them for years. Until then all I have is independently training dogs to help me navigate my world safely.
jizzypuff 2 points 1y ago
I'm super biased but gsds are the best.
No-Satisfaction7842 5 points 1y ago
I had a lot of useful daytime vision when I got my guide dog back in 1999. Because I’m night blind though, it was especially helpful having him with me at night. The challenge for me was learning to rely on him during the day and not trying to override him with the vision I did have. It was a trust thing, but eventually I got used to it and realized it freed my vision up for other things like taking in my surroundings etc. I would call guide dogs and set up a consultation. One of their staff can help determine if it might be right for you. Best of luck
wnolan1992 5 points 1y ago
I have the option of applying for a guide dog, but for various personal circumstance reasons it's not right for me right now.

I did some test walks with one about ten years ago while I was at a centre doing cane training. I found relying on the dog incredibly difficult because of my level of vision. I'm so used to relying on my eyes, I found it hard to not pre-empt the dog's movement if I saw an obstacle.

For the same reason, I use a symbol cane rather than a long cane. I struggle to put my faith in the cane.

Obviously, this is something that could be overcome with training and practice, but it's definitely something worth bearing in mind if people are considering a guide dog with low vision.
No-Satisfaction7842 3 points 1y ago
When I got my dog I had the same experience because I had a high level of useful vision still so I totally understand. In the end, it turned out being the right thing for me, but it may not be the right thing for everybody. The only way to find out is to do some research and talk with an organization about your specific situation.
yoyo2718 [OP] 2 points 1y ago
Good points, thanks for sharing your perspective.
yoyo2718 [OP] 1 points 1y ago
So your school recommended you use your dog all the time, rather than use at night and heel during times you didn’t need the visual help? Is that to keep up both your and the dog’s training?
No-Satisfaction7842 4 points 1y ago
Yeah, you’ve got to keep things consistent for the sake of the dog’s training. All this means is if you are having your dog guide you, holding onto their harness, you must let them do their job and not try to steer or override them. If you don’t need their guidance, you can always grab onto the leash and have them heal while you use your cane. It just needs to be one or the other
yoyo2718 [OP] 4 points 1y ago
Ok got it, thanks. I was wondering how that might work for me in the future, since I’d likely have some situations where I didn’t need to be guided. Wasnt sure if schools were cool with that or not.
deathbyfloof 4 points 1y ago
I am an instructor at a guide dog school, I can’t speak for all schools but at least at mine we do accept applicants who don’t always travel with canes. In fact many of our graduates still have a decent amount of usable remaining vision. During the interview phase however we ask people what kind of things do they daily that a guide dog will help them with. It’s important for the dogs to have consistent work to do, both for exercise and to keep their skills sharp. If say someone only wanted/needed to work their dog once a week when they went out at night it would not be an ideal situation, the dog wouldn’t be working often enough and their skill would quickly deteriorate. On the other hand, even if someone has some remaining vision but trusts/allows the dog to do it’s job even in situations where the person could technically use their own vision it can work out. And like a previous commenter mentioned having the dog do the work frees up the handler to use their remaining vision to take in their surrounding rather than having to focus on traveling safely.

One other thing to consider though is that for some people with a good bit of remaining vision traveling with a guide dog would be an inconvenience. The dog is trained to work in a certain way and it’s important for the handler to adhere to that rather than trying to take shortcuts and confuse the dog.

I hope that helps!
yoyo2718 [OP] 2 points 1y ago
That helps a lot, thanks! My vision fluctuates, so while I may be able to travel visually outdoors for 15-20 min if it’s not too sunny and I’m feeling perfect, as my eyes tire (or if it’s bright or I’m someplace indoors with a lot of busy visuals, or whatever) I need help. So I need help getting around each day, but also have periods when I’m pretty good, particularly early in the day. Wasn’t sure if that would work with a guide dog or if I’d need to wait and see if vision deteriorates further. I think a dog would help a lot since I’m in an urban environment, but yeah…I can def travel visually sometimes.
deathbyfloof 3 points 1y ago
There's definitely no harm in reaching out to whatever guide dog school/schools service your area. My school and the other schools I know of have a solid application process that includes a home interview where someone comes out to your home for an in person visit. Which not only lets the school find out about what you need from a dog but is a great time for you to get information from the school and determine if one of their dogs is what you're looking for. I would definitely encourage you to contact whichever school/s you're interested in working with, even if you're not ready to apply right this second talking to the admissions staff can be super helpful and give you a lot more information than I can over reddit haha.
yoyo2718 [OP] 2 points 1y ago
Thank you!
deathbyfloof 3 points 1y ago
No problem! Good luck!
bayou_firebaby 4 points 1y ago
My husband’s vision has been rapidly declining for 20 years now, and currently he’s reduced to faint blurs in major haze (in full sunlight; in less light he’s completely blind). Being a service dog trainer already, and although he’s never before trained a dog for guide work, he trained his first guide dog about 7 years ago and used her any time he left the property. She provided a great deal of security even when he had some semblance of vision left, and when she died unexpectedly and suddenly a year and a half ago he said it was like going blind all over again. I convinced him to get another dog to train, and he did. For over a year he’s been using his new guide dog, and they’re inseparable. As an aside, his cardiologist told him last year, after seeing the difference in his ECG when the dog was absent and present, to never ever go anywhere without his dog. So she provides more of a service than simply guiding him.
sunny1sotrue117 3 points 1y ago
I don’t use a cane and am not fully blind but I have a guide dog. She mainly gives me confidence when crossing streets or going new places, especially when it’s dark out.
sscakes 1 points 1y ago
hey! im trying to do some research as to whether or not my sister can get a guide dog. she has retinitis pigmentosa and always goes out with her cane. she can see well during the day in her central field of vision but its a very small field of vision. her nighttime vision is moot but still sorta okay in the center. she told me that when she called up a place to see if she qualified for a guide dog they told her she had too much vision. they were asking her questions like "do you fall down the stairs" or "are you able to execute daily activities" and she answered yes to questions like that cause she can do that stuff so they told her she doesn't qualify.

im rethinking the whole thing because I really feel that she needs the dog now and I've seen her struggle with her cane and walk into little kids that her cane misses or hit her shoulders on door frames, etc.

do you have any advice how can we go about getting her a dog? are these dogs only available through organizations (like Southeastern Guide Dogs) or could we go the private route if she cant get approved by a bigger organization?
team_nanatsujiya 3 points 1y ago
It is possible for a low-vision person to have a service dog. I have enough remaining vision that I never use a cane (though I do know how to use one and admittedly in some situations it would make things much easier), but I had a service dog when I went off to university since it was going to be such a new environment.

I did have to find a school where I could train him and get him certified, but as long as you have a physical disability that the dog is trained to help you with, there is no "too much" vision to have a service dog.
yoyo2718 [OP] 1 points 1y ago
Interesting. So did your dog guide you all the time, or were there some settings when you’d heel him/her and navigate visually?
team_nanatsujiya 5 points 1y ago
There are some situations where it's just a hassle to have a big labrador along (a small restaurant, for example), and since I could get by without him I sometimes just did--even when it would have made it easier for me to bring him. But when he was with me and working, he was basically always working. Most of the time he would just kind of be there beside me, minding his own business until he alerted me to a step or other obstacle I hadn't seen and would have stumbled on. There were also some times that I had to let him guide me almost 100%, which wasn't really what he was even trained for.

One example I can remember is when it had freshly snowed, and I was walking down an unfamiliar road. Because of the snow and the cloudy weather, there was absolutely no distinction between the sidewalk with only the thin layer of new snow, and a waist-deep snowdrift where the new snow covered all the previous snowfall that had been plowed off to the side. When I crossed a street and had to get back onto the sidewalk, I was completely unable to find where the pathway was. It was just a big expanse of flat, dull white. So I told my dog to walk slightly ahead of me (he had been trained to walk right beside me so it took a few tries) and I just followed him.
yoyo2718 [OP] 1 points 1y ago
Thanks for the detailed response, I appreciate it!
This nonprofit website is run by volunteers.
Please contribute if you can. Thank you!
Our mission is to provide everyone with access to large-
scale community websites for the good of humanity.
Without ads, without tracking, without greed.
©2023 HumbleCat Inc   •   HumbleCat is a 501(c)3 nonprofit based in Michigan, USA.