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Blind and Visually Impaired Community

Full History - 2022 - 03 - 24 - ID#tmvb81
16
Incorrect Braille (self.Blind)
submitted by [deleted]
Hello! I am seeing, and I started learn braille (as well as sign language) a few months ago. I've noticed that braille signs in public are frequently riddled with typos, or are just outright gibberish. For example the men's bathroom sign at my school says "'je 'icessi." This makes me pretty upset, why would the designers of the sign even put anything on it if they're just going to write nonsense. I am curious if anyone else is having this issue, and if so what is the most nonsensical braille you've read? Thank you! Hope you are doing well :\]

I tried to upload an mp3, but couldn't figure out how. I apologize if this is inaccessible, please let me know!.
gunfart 7 points 1y ago
You are probably finding contracted grade 2 braille while out in public, uncontracted grade one braille is simple while grade 2 is much more difficult.
DHamlinMusic 7 points 1y ago
Nah, OP is probably correct, been told by my states cbvi and the braille dept at Hadley that this is a pretty common issue..

Also signs in public places aren’t likely in grade 2.
Terry_Pie 4 points 1y ago
You should see the lift buttons in the building our department is in. I don't think there's a single one across all four lifts that isn't damaged or bogus.
[deleted] [OP] 6 points 1y ago
I've never heard of multiple grades of braille before, why would there be more than 1 standard? That just seems like it would be more confusing. I did some googling and learned that I have learned contracted grade 1. I looked at the charts for grade 2 and they are really confusing, I also saw some stuff about grade 3. What's the benefit of having multiple different types of braille?
rabbitsfromthestars 8 points 1y ago
Braille characters take up a LOT of space! Grade 2, or contracted, UEB (Unified English Braille) takes up significantly less space than Grade 1, or simple, UEB. When you can combine multiple letters or even whole words into the space of one character or two, you can fit a whole lot more! The spacing is so rigid on braille characters, and all of them are the exact same size, unlike the letters in English, where letters are many different sizes and can be crammed next to each other.

I'm also a bit confused—at least in UEB, there's no such thing as contracted Grade 1 or really Grade 3.

Grade 1 is uncontracted, where every letter is spelled out.

Grade 2 is complex, and a space-saver, with multiple characters and whole words being condensed into a few characters.

Grade 3 is not an official kind of UEB, but usually it means somebody's shorthand. That might mean they've chosen certain characters to represent common words or letters, but this is non-standardized and would only make sense to themselves or others who they have told. It doesn't really exist in the beautiful, relatively modern, standardized world of UEB.

The worst signs I've seen are the ones that say "ADA SIGN DEPOT" or something similar on them.
CosmicBunny97 7 points 1y ago
It should be more common-place for public areas to use Grade 1, as it is easier to read. I know Grade 1 and in the process of learning Grade 2. Grade 2 is more contractions/abbreviations (dot 5 contractions, low E for en, dots 1, 2, 4, 5, 6 for er, stuff like that). I believe Grade 3 is more abbreviations (after is af, about is ab etc) but someone can correct me if I'm wrong because those abbreviations just got condensed into Grade 2 for me. Anyway, the reason why there's different contractions and abbreviations under different grades is because it makes it easier to read and it indicates there's difficult levels of difficulty.
DHamlinMusic 3 points 1y ago
Yeah there isn’t really a grade 3 in the sense of UEB Braille, I have run into some old books that used "wh"" in otherwise grade 1 braille. This was all typed in grade 2 using BSI just as a fun fact.
Shadowwynd 3 points 1y ago
If you were to write “can not”, you use 7 characters. If you abbreviate to “can’t” you have 5. If you say that we talk about usually talk about “negation” and not “tilt”, we can drop the apostrophe and now we are at four. If we say that we use “can” so much, we can just abbreviate it as “c”. In Grade1 Braille, it would be spelled C-A-N-space-N-O-T. In grade 2 it would be “CN” although “cannot” (because it is so common) actually has a special contraction that is easier to type and read.

From 7 characters down to 2. This matters a lot because you cannot change the size of the cell in braille (You can change the size of print and it is still legible to someone with good vision). Even with these sorts of tricks to compress data, braille takes enormous amounts of space and expensive paper compared to print.

As a good practical example - let’s take the Bible, assume it 1000 pages in print. You can get tiny print versions that literally fit in a pocket. A normal print version might be two inches (5cm) thick, a low vision version three inches (8cm) thick…. And a braille version, even with contractions, is a full dedicated floor-to-ceiling bookshelf - roughly 200 inches (5m) of heavy expensive paper.

Without contractions, it would be multiple bookshelves…. for one book.
[deleted] [OP] 1 points 1y ago
[removed]
B_Bussen 5 points 1y ago
One of thestrangest things I ran across whas at a medical place in Las Vegas. Elevator to the second floor was in braille, but when I started looking for my suite number, couldn't find it anywhere. I finally called them on my cell and asked them to come and get me. I asked where their number was, it was painted on the glass. Big help~!!!!!
AnimeKid 6 points 1y ago
> why would the designers of the sign even put anything on it if they're just going to write nonsense.

I think a bit part of it tends to be that the ones making the signs/using the signs rely on others to handle it.

Reminds me of moments like the "$1"

Similarly I remember running into this sign for a $1 [Letters appeared to be incorrectly offset one letter before...or after...etc]

Volunteered at an event and the event staff requested the facilities folks to temporarily convert the bathrooms to all gender. $1. [Sign was printed on paper...with printed braille dots...which actually read "ADA Depot"...likely the vendor advertising the sign]

Doesn't beat this story of my colleague who retells of a story how...she was sure other shoppers were looking at her thinking she had gone crazy staring at a $1 [Braille reads "mechanical equipment room"]
SquirrelRun3 6 points 1y ago
Grade 3 is just a term we use here to show someone is an advanced braille user/teacher. I did a Level 3 qualification at my college.
[deleted] [OP] 5 points 1y ago
It looks like I'll have to learn grade 2 as well, I had no clue that there were multiple types of braille! Hopefully after I learn it some of the signs start to make sense. :)
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