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Full History - 2022 - 05 - 28 - ID#v007dj
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NV says it is not Mac compatible. What is? (self.Blind)
submitted by stuffitupyourbum
I have been using NV on my non mac laptop for a while, but I will be getting a new laptop that is a Mac. What options are available for Mac, and if you have made the switch, how difficult was it to adjust?
akrazyho 7 points 1y ago
Voiceover is built into Mac OS native Lisa you will be using voiceover as the screen reader. It is quite a bit different but you will see that it is super powerful and very well integrated into the operating system. The learning curve isn’t that bad plus it’s very similar to the set up an iPhone and iPad.
ke7zum 3 points 1y ago
Agreed. I've been using a mac since 2010 and have loved it. I made training materials but they are so old they really probably are of no value anymore. You will love the mac, good luck with it.
Laser_Lens_4 5 points 1y ago
Your options are Voiceover, Voiceover, and Voiceover. Depending on your use case, you're either likely to love it or hate it. If you use Braille in any capacity, turn back now. If you use Office 365, turn back now. Since the screen reader is built-in and controlled by Apple, you're at their whim when it comes to updates and bugs, and there are a lot of bugs. I'm not a fan, but to be fair I'm a power user. That said, I do use a Mac Mini as an audio production machine. Voiceover is fine, really. It just likes to frustrate me a lot.
ke7zum 1 points 1y ago
Actually office 365 at least as far as word are mostly usable. I wrote a cover letter and resume on my mac. I also use zoom and skype for my job and mail mate for my mail program. Over all I love the mac especially now that it has VO OCr which is I think an app or add on you can get somewhere.
Laser_Lens_4 1 points 1y ago
It is mostly usable, however it’s significantly better on windows. I’ve used it on both platforms
ke7zum 1 points 1y ago
Actually on windows I'm having loads of issues wiht word such as the laggy grammar checker, that's a big one for me as most of my documents are pages in length, also alt q and control e arre both broken in outlook on windows. I have not tested on the mac side of things yet, using word on the mac for me for now is more enjoyable until the windows part gets fixed. I do like the writage plug which allows me to write in markdown. that one is neato.
sorressean 4 points 1y ago
I'm not going to lie to you and tell you that the mac learning curve isn't hard or annoying. I'm not really able to do as much on a mac as I can on a windows computer. If you hold down a job and need to get things done on any type of schedule, using a mac is pretty brutal. If something doesn't work, voiceover basically is just at a dead-end, with JAWS I can OCR it, NVDA also supports this. There are solutions. Keyboard commands don't work without Voiceover enabled, which is all kinds of interesting if you have some reason Voiceover doesn't work. TL/DR: using mac is different if you're used to the windows workflow, but you do have Voiceover built in.
Fridux 4 points 1y ago
The learning curve on MacOS isn't that steep, and I would argue that having a screen-reader cursor that can easily reach any widget using the same basic controls is more intuitive than having to memorize specific key combinations for every application, and that's when applications do have keyboard controls. NVDA has Object Navigation which essentially does the same, but is much less intuitive to use than VoiceOver.

As for OCR, VoiceOver does support it, and even attempts to recognize images, you just have to enable it in VoiceOver Utility -> VoiceOver Recognition, and then use VO+Shift+L to make it attempt to recognize whatever is in the VO cursor. Someone also made an app called $1 that can be used to recognize and navigate text in a window, so you can definitely do something about it.

I'm not saying that VoiceOver is perfect, as I find navigating the web with it to be an ordeal compared to using NVDA, but it's not as bad as you claim either.
sorressean 1 points 1y ago
My claims are that voiceover falls flat when something isn't accessible. Maybe the navigation is slightly more intuitive if you want to think of your UI as a hierarchy. It's not ever displayed as such, and it's simply confusing for most people. I've taught quite a few people Windows and OSX keyboard navigation, I can say for certain people picked up the former much faster. I'm also stating that having Voiceover OCR a graphic is not the same as being able to OCR a screen if you really -have- to and click on what you need. This enables me to navigate a lot more than I would otherwise be able to do in apps that mostly sometimes work. I've also never really had JAWS or NVDA lock up in that wonderful "ready busy ready busy" cycle that Voiceover has had for literal years, since 2009 when I bought my first mac until today when I bought the latest and greatest speedy m1 that is supposed to revolutionize the world. My fallback was to assume that I could just do everything via CLI, but true to form, voiceover only works about 50% of the time there and likes to just skip over and/or ignore huge chunks of text or make it look like there was no input, which is very confusing if you are from the *nix world and expect success to mean no output. Voiceover is usable, but you're very much stuck in a box if you use it when something doesn't work. People have invented clever workarounds, but if you're using it in a corporate/school environment, it's going to be harder to install those clever workarounds like VOCR since lots of people get a bit twitchy when some rando decides they want to install something on a computer they don't own, vs having it once you've gotten JAWS or NVDA installed. It's great for plenty of things, and the navigation in apps like mail and messages is really cool/easy, but I think we do people a disservice by saying that it's easy to use and easy to pick up if you're coming from a Windows world. If you want to know just how dependable and wonderful Voiceover can be, just ask each person who tells you if they have a VM running windows on their system for those things Voiceover is terrible at.
SightlessKombat 1 points 1y ago
Unfortunately, I would have to disagree with you as a long-time Windows user trying to learn Mac OS. So much of the documentation I can find is either out of date due to changes in applications (iMovie, the main reason I bought the Mac), or due to outdated shortcut references (in Voiceover when referring to Drag and Drop). The thought that I might have to pay an extra £250 for Final Cut, on top of the £900 or so I spent on the Mac Mini, just to get functionality that sighted users can work with easily in iMovie by clicking and dragging fade handles for audio boggles my mind.

Not to say it hasn't been interesting learning a new OS, but it's definitely not been as smooth as others would make out.
jimmyTheBlind 3 points 1y ago
Voiceover is built in. It's great, and better than NV and JAWS in most applications IMHO.

Using a MacBook Pro as I type. Enjoy the new machine
TechnicalPragmatist 2 points 1y ago
The built in screen reader is called voice over. The good news it’s free, because apple made it, as long as you have the mac it’s totally free.

I have been a mac user primarily for 8 years now maybe 9 years, but I love it, it’s better than windows. I know a fellow tech friend who owns an isp and agrees with me.

It depends on the person I love tinkering, learn something new fast, got a chromebook recently and picked that up pretty quickly also. So what the sam hill does that have to do with anything right? Welp yeah,


If you are willing to learn a different screen reader mostly using shortcut keyes then I would go for it. There is some arrowing for sure

Is it worth it for you? At the time I was so frustrated with windows and I will never go back for me as a person I far prefer apple..

Do you think the mac will offer you benefits that the windows computer won’t?

Are you techy and a fast smart person like me and will pick up a lot of things quickly?
stuffitupyourbum [OP] 1 points 1y ago
This is all good to know, I was feeling a bit worried but I am glad to hear that the built in screen reader seems to work well! I have not used a Mac in a while so I think there will be some adjustment, but I expected that. Thank you for your responses!
TechnicalPragmatist 3 points 1y ago
It works very well. I love it. Voice over works a bit differently from how you’d use a mac otherwise but it’s pretty cool. How you navigate around is sure different. But it’s good.

What mac do you have? Depends on how you turn it on. The older ones is command f5 now it’s the on button three times rapidly kind of like on the iphones a little or the finger id spot. That same button.
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