Just curious what the level of braille literacy here is. I do know braille but admittedly don't use it as often as I could. I started out learning braille exclusively when I started school, then switched to large print in 3rd grade and had much more success. Then I tried learning braille again in 6th grade, and yet again when attending my state's rehab program. I bought an Orbit Reader soon after they became available, although part of the reason I don't use braille more often is because the Orbit is really loud.
Braille seems like the closest thing we have to a "culture", like how deaf people have sign language that ties them together. It's kind of a shame then that braille literacy is declining.
I learned braille in 3 weeks several months after I went blind. Just seemed like the right thing to do and I became fluent in both Grade 1 and Grade 2 UEB. I primarily use it for labeling things around the house, modifying board and card games to be accessible, and use it every single day when writing things on my phone using braille screen input. It's what I'm using to write this very comment.
DHamlinMusic4 points1y ago
BSI Buddies LoL :D
DrillInstructorJan1 points1y ago
Good grief it took me three weeks to figure out I was never going to be able to do it!
Aggressive-Yoghurt3115 points1y ago
Why would any blind person not learn and use Braille? I am very new to this just went blind a few months ago but I instantly self-taught grade one Braille and I use it to type silently on my phone with Braille screen input, Read batons in an elevator so useful and I am not even an expert at it, so why would blind people not learn it?
Shadowwynd10 points1y ago
Many of my older blind clients (especially those with Diabetic Retinopathy) don’t have enough sensitivity in their fingers for Braille to be practical. They are also having to re-learn all their life skills to be independent with their new vision loss and Braille is usually not high up on their priorities (especially since so many things can talk).
DrillInstructorJan1 points1y ago
As you say I celebrate the fact that so many things can talk, but not being able to read is absolutely the worst thing about not being able to see. I could see fine until I was 19, so I wasn't exactly old, but I just found it impossible. I play a lot of guitar so I have hard skin on my fingers which doesn't help, but honestly it always just felt like rough paper to me. I never got anywhere with it.
[deleted]7 points1y ago
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Rethunker5 points1y ago
Braille readers make up about 10% of the legally blind population. To my recollection that percentage has held steady since the early 1970s.
Mainstreaming of more students has had an impact. Advantages of mainstreaming including normalizing vision loss and ensuring all kids can learn together. However, from all I’ve read and heard there’s a chronic lack of teachers of the visually impaired. Thus some mainstreamed blind kids and low vision kids don’t get everything they have a right to have.
Some kids are encouraged to use magnifiers and read very large print in place of learning Braille.
Braille literacy is associated with better odds of employment. This is widely acknowledged, but there are relatively few studies confirming this.
A hoped side effect of my company’s work will be more tools to learn and practice Braille.
It’s been great to see more games using Braille, too.
ultamentkiller5 points1y ago
It’s probably lower now. I know a lot of people in my generation are barely taught braille. It’s easier for teachers to make them rely on audio instead of putting the tine and effort into increasing reading speed and comprehension. I would be curious to see what 10 percent means. Ten percent of anyone on the blindness spectrum? Does that include the elderly which make up 50 percent of people on the blind spectrum? I think the answer is yes to both but I’m not sure. If it does, then that’s actually a high number all things considered.
Rethunker2 points1y ago
Yes, the ten percent refers to all people who are legally blind. Those who become blind as seniors are less likely to learn Braille. All the totally blind people I know well are totally blind from birth, and all know Braille.
The statistics for Braille readers are broken down by age in some studies, if I remember correctly.
DHamlinMusic1 points1y ago
It's interesting to note that the poll has been holding steady at about 2/3 saying they don’t know it at all, but the other 1/3 saying they know it at least some even if they don’t use it.
Minister_of_Joy1 points1y ago
I used to have a "coach" for several years... a woman who works for a major organization for the blind in my country and she actively discouraged me from learning it. She told me there's no use because it's supposedly very difficult (takes several years) and no one needs it anymore because I can just learn all the blind-accessible computer skills instead now (text-to-voice etc).
I also went blind very gradually, over the course of my entire life. So although I'm blind now, there was never this big moment where I thought to myself "holy shit, I need to learn Braille." I attended public schools all my life and they don't offer such niche skill trainings in my country because most of our schools are relatively small.
BooksDogsMaps10 points1y ago
I find it very important for blind people to know Braille, because sure one can do a lot through speech output nowadays, but when it comes to writing (especially in a professional/education context) you should be able to read what you wrote to check if it‘s correct.
I use zoom for the most part, but I‘m happy I learnt Braille as a child. I use it to label things in my home mostly.
BlindFuryC10 points1y ago
I opted to learn it at school. I was closer to visually impaired at school rather than registered blind which I am now, but was fascinated by it and wanted to learn how it works and how competent braillists could easily outpace me and my large handwriting.
As it turns out, this was a wise choice, as my eyesight continued to degenerate and now it is my primary way of reading if the information isn't available electronically.
I'm unsure about it being a "culture" though, since it's not exactly the same as sign language, written communication doesn't feel as integral to social interaction as physical communication. It could be because I'm comfortable with technology though and have been a many year computer user.
Also, braille in certain situations is more of a pain than electronic information would be. I recently received some insurance information, including a full copy of the privacy policy / terms of use, or some such. It was many, many pages of double sided braille. Essentially a book, with much of it being redundant and useless. I'd much rather have the personal info sent in braille, but the copy+paste legal stuff that no one can understand included as a direction to go and read such and such a page. Again, though, these are just my views.
Altie-McAltface [OP]2 points1y ago
>I'm unsure about it being a "culture" though
I agree, which is why I put it in quotes. Ironically this illustrates the need for braille literacy because that's an important detail that could be missed with speech.
SoapyRiley6 points1y ago
I taught myself grade 1 last summer when I was able to kick the brain fog because I can’t hear much. At the time, relying on audio wasn’t going to work well for me. Now I have hearing aids and use it less, but Braille is still easier than audio for me when typing emails and correcting spelling errors for work stuff.
BlindWizard4 points1y ago
I look at it this way. Braille is a font and one that I think could use some updating in modern society. I think it's interesting though that technology has outpaced the need for Braille in a lot of ways because we can just point our phone at most things and it will tell us what it is given a little bit of time. I do agree that Braille ties very closely into our culture specifically and should be taught as if nothing more than a grounding in our history and the progression of a blind person in society and tools that we use.
DHamlinMusic4 points1y ago
I agree with this, I do think some things regarding what consists of grade 1 vs 2 need to be rethought, the more useful non-contracted patterns such as, the lower E/I and things like the Wh and Th etc being grade 2 is unhelfful and it makes little sense to me that those are not just part of grade 1. The fact the UEB changes didn’t do something about the hilariousness of the "knowledge" word sign is also amusing.
PrettyBlind19834 points1y ago
I’m Not But I Would Like To Learn it
DHamlinMusic4 points1y ago
Taught myself back in January, I can read grade 1 fluently, grade 2 I can manage but am not familiar with a lot of contractions I would assume. I mainly use it for typing on my phone with braille screen input.
rumster4 points1y ago
wait you already know grade 2? wow damn.
DHamlinMusic2 points1y ago
Yeah, I can manage, not great but get by, use it heavily for writing stuff, need to work on learning more contractions, and the like.
retrolental_morose3 points1y ago
The cool thing about grade 2 in the modern era is the speed increase when typing. Words like and, the, were, with, not, that, you, etc become very rapid to enter. Typing email addresses and passwords becomes faster too, because all the numbers and symbols are to hand.
DHamlinMusic2 points1y ago
Oh yeah for sure, even if I don’t know a contraction I can still mangle a mix of advanced patterns and letters to write much faster than I would otherwise on a mobile device.
rumster2 points1y ago
very impressive. I only know grade 1 and barely...
rumster3 points1y ago
Almost 3k views of this post with 200 votes! WOW!
DHamlinMusic2 points1y ago
Yeah I am just as impressed.
rumster3 points1y ago
I'm not surprised about the votes but I would love to know our percentage of users using VO/JAWS/NVDA and the browser they use. I might make this a questgion
DHamlinMusic2 points1y ago
Yeah that seems like a good thought, also remember Talkback as well lol.
[deleted]3 points1y ago
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lacitar3 points1y ago
I am trying to learn. The Lighthouse of the blind said they would get back to me. This was at the start of the pandemic.
How can I self teach myself?
DHamlinMusic3 points1y ago
Yeah my cbvi only teaches it beyond basics of grade 1 patterns if you're going to school or work and it is needed. I contacted the Hadley School but found that to be less than helpful.
Aggressive-Yoghurt313 points1y ago
I self taught myself just after I went blind at least for grade one Braille, but I was cited for 18 years of my life so I think that makes it a bit easier. I watched some videos on YouTube explaining it end telling me which combination is which letter end after I memorised all the letters I practised on my parents medicine packages which all have Braille on them. I would love to help you learn it just send me a message if you're interested
DHamlinMusic3 points1y ago
I would add to this that just brute forcing via trial and error with BSI works decently, that's what I did along with braille scrabble for practice with reading the grade 1 patterns.
retrolental_morose2 points1y ago
$1 hold regular online lessons. $1 will let you practice independently. On Windows or Linux, $1 will let you turn any text or documents into Braille. Obviously getting hold of some form of refreshable Braille device would be best for then reading the resulting output, although you can input Braille you've learned on iOS, Android, FireOS or Windows (with NVDA).
ZealousBean2 points1y ago
I learned Braille from the moment I entered school at 3 years old (while also learning how to read and write in English as my second language). It was something that I was kind of forced into until my freshman year of high school. I competed in the Braille Challenge two times. Both in which I was forced to practice heavily for for literal months beforehand. I was also forced to take 1-3 hours every day out of my summers in elementary school to keep up with my Braille reading/writing. I was still using large print, but only for math as that was the “only subject I needed it in” according to everyone else. Of course I do still remember it and had kind of a disappointment in hearing about UEB becoming a thing because of how much more space it takes up. But I’ll never forget that it took me 5-6 years to learn the entire code and I only now in early adulthood realize that it is definitely good that I have the skill though I may be slow in it due to my lack of using it often. I would probably have been more open to it if it wasn’t forced upon me by literally everyone at early childhood, but I can’t say I didn’t enjoy it once I became proficient. It’s definitely a good subset skill to have if you know you’re vision is declining.
CloudyBeep1 points1y ago
UEB doesn't take up that much more space. If I were to transcribe your comment into both EBAE and UEB, it might take up maybe 11 more cells in UEB.
ZealousBean2 points1y ago
That’s fair. It probably just feels like more space since for the majority of life I was used to being able to use contractions that aren’t there anymore and putting certain single word contractions together without spaces.
retrolental_morose2 points1y ago
Tricky, UEB is disproportionately larger when it comes to representing computer code, heavily-formatted materials and so on.
Altie-McAltface [OP]1 points1y ago
But UEB can provide much more detail about the formatting. Old braille just had one “emphasis mark” but UEB has signs for bold, underline, and italics, plus “script”, whatever that means.
retrolental_morose1 points1y ago
true. Depends what you want, though. If you're reading a novel, you just need to know about the emphasis on certain words, not that it's italics specifically. If you're proofing a document, the marks become more important. It's all a matter of degree.
r_12352 points1y ago
Okay, I learnt braille in 1 month, even contracted braille. But I forgot this grade 1 and 2 nomenclature. Can anyone explain what's the difference between grade 1 2 3?
Also, I have tried braille displays for a while, but don't understand what's so different about computer braille. Most of the letters and symbols are same as far as I know, and apart from the dots 7 and 8 being used as curser keys, I didn't find anything different about it.
I am only talking about English braille, no other languages.
retrolental_morose7 points1y ago
Grade1 Braille has no contractions, it's a letter-for-letter transcription of print. Grade 2 is everything else, all the shortforms, word signs and so on.
Computer Braille is designed so that all the printable characters have a representation. In literary Braille, dot 1 is both an A and the number 1, depending on context. In computer Braille this isn't the case; dot1 is always an A.
r_12351 points1y ago
Thank you so much for that quick refresher.
But, even when I was writing just grade 1 braille, I was writing numbers with a symbol behind them, dot 3 4 5 6. For example: number 1 would be dots 3 4 5 6 and dot 1. I didn't know that this is computer braille. Even our grade 1 braille books used the same symbol. I've studied math subject for a while in braille, before switching to computers.
Also, I've seen them at many places, some of our books sometimes used lower 4 dots for numbers, and sometimes used the upper 4 dots. For example, number 3 could be written in 2 ways, dots 3 4 5 6 and dots 1 4, and, also as dots 3 4 5 6 and dot 2 5. Are both ways correct? both part of computer braille?
retrolental_morose2 points1y ago
Ah, ok, your confusion is understandable. :) Grade 1 works on computers or Braille displays, 9 tenths of Braille is written in grade 1 or 2, which they now call literary braille.
The lowered-dot numbers braille is computer braille, it wouldn't need 3-4-5-6 as a number sign; in fact that represents the pound or # sign. Computer Braille's intent is to be able to represent each printable symbol with a single braille cell; it's an 8 dot standard. dot 7 is added to the typical letters to represent capitals.
With the introduction of UEB, the need for computer Braille has faded; iOS doesn't use it at all unless specifically chosen.
r_12351 points1y ago
Sorry I am stretching this question and answer thing so long. But, I am just curious, have been out of touch with braille for so long.
How does UEB works then? Any notable differences then computer braille? Is there any online manual on UEB? I tried searching, but all of the guides seems to be focused on teaching sighted people UEB. Lol!
honestduane2 points1y ago
I used to know level 1, then was trained in level 2, but now have completely forgotten any of it because I don't have access to a braille reader due to the cost.
Miss_Carrot_Sticks2 points1y ago
I was formally taught braille as a child, and use it every day with my braille notetaker and braille textbooks at school. I initially learned US literary braille but picked up on grade two UEB when the change happened, so I can read both with no issue.
PrincessDie1232 points1y ago
I know a little bit but contracted Braille sort of pushes the uncontracted Braille out of my head so I’ve not had success with grade 2 yet
Tasdigo1 points1y ago
I started learning Braille when I found out about my vision issues. I can now read grade 2 braille or what is now called UEB. It is a good skill to have I think. I find audio can be inconvenient when others are around. I also tire of headphones after about an hour or so. I don’t regret taking the time to learn Braille and thank the wonderful people at www.hadley.edu for their wonderful programs.
mehgcap1 points1y ago
I learned braille growing up, in place of print. I know most print letters, but use them so infrequently that I sometimes forget which is which or what a letter looks like. By contrast, I'm comfortable in UEB, Nemeth, and 8-dot Spanish computer braille, the last of which I use when reading code I write. However, I find it more comfortable and efficient to type on a regular keyboard, and rely on speech to read most things. Braille is for detailed checks, or when speech is unavailable, but I won't read books or articles in braille. I do use braille screen input when typing on my phone, though, as I find it far faster and easier than hunting and pecking on the on-screen keyboard. I'm a strange mix of braille, speech, and typing, but the short answer is yes, I know braille very well and use it every day.
DHamlinMusic1 points1y ago
I feel that braille screen input is gonna be the reason more people still learn it later in life than most others, is just so effective and makes using a phone much more comfortable.
mehgcap1 points1y ago
Plus, UEB means I can do crazy symbols that sighted people can't, or can't easily. I can type 60°, or é (e accute), or σ ∈ § ¶.
CloudyBeep1 points1y ago
‡ ≠ þ ɨ ∠ ∮ ⇒ ♮ ˌ ẑ
Rhymershouse1 points1y ago
I use Braille on the daily.
CosmicBunny971 points1y ago
I’m currently learning Grade 2. I’m loving learning :)
arsen_gevorgyan1 points1y ago
I was born blind so braille is what I used since when I could remember myself first reading/writing something. After 6 years of braille in Armenia, I had to relearn some thangs when I moved to the US 5 years ago cause things are kinda different here. Altho I only use braille for school related shit.
potato_rock_bandit1 points1y ago
Holy doodle, reading through the comments had my head spinning with the different kinds of Braille. An informal poll in my peer support group for visual impairment, even the lifelong legally blind members referred to their Braille literacy as 'elevator Braille'. A number of the group members live with retinitis pigmentosak, others are older and either have diabetic retinopathy or some form of macular degeneration.
Could someone please point me to some resources for the total noob? So far I've found kids books on Amazon, a number of slates with stylus for writing manually. Also found some advice to spend a lot of time sorting long grain rice from short grain rice or something like that to get the tactile aspect fine tuned, but that did not really fill me with enthusiaasm.
DHamlinMusic2 points1y ago
You can get a free slate/stylus from the NFB site. I learned just from brute force trial and error on my phone writing with bsi, also have a braille scrabble set that I use and is good for practicing the feel, just using it for typing you get the feel of the patterns which seems to help with reading as well.
potato_rock_bandit2 points1y ago
Thank you for helping me get a better handle on this challenge. :). I just spent some time at the CNIB shop and it was neat to see they have Braille enhanced Monopoly and Scrabble games. :). I saw they had some very budge friendly options like magnetic letters embossed with their corresponding Braille. They also have keyboard stickers and the Braille Series 1992 books, just books 2 and 3 not the first one though.
Big giant kudos to you for brute forcing your way into Braille literacy! I will start with the magnetic letters and maybe a kids' book, then build up to the learning to read and write from there.
DHamlinMusic2 points1y ago
Yeah braille scrabble is a lot of fun, my set has regular print, raised letters and braille on each tile, and braille and print on the board along with the raised grid to keep the tiles in place. I would highly recommend trying braille screen input as it's rather fun and makes typing on phones so much easier.
potato_rock_bandit1 points1y ago
Cool :) :). By Braille input, doyou mean one of those USB / Bluetooth accessory Braille keyboards?
BlindGuyNW1 points1y ago
I was lucky; I got the chance to learn it but was also taught in a mainstream school. I have been trying to read at least a little every day; having a display helps with that though I wish it were a little more like a book. I don't know why, but the aesthetics appeal a great deal.
[deleted]1 points1y ago
I do actually typing away now. I am doing a lot of math these days and that’s all in braille. I’ve been using and working with braille since I was 5 or so.
cebeezly821 points1y ago
I'm legally blind and have some vision but I do know Braille. I know a through z and only a couple of contractions of Braille 2. Definitely useful for labeling and quick notes
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