Blind and Visually Impaired Community
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What are your thoughts on this upcoming tactile graphical display? (pad.dotincorp.com)
submitted by Fridux
retrolental_morose 3 points 1y ago
The thing is, as a personal matter, what's the use?
The marketing fluff goes on about the rest of the world seeing things that I can't. Yeah. No shit. It's been that way for over 3 decades now. The implication here seems to be my life will be enriched by having access to a low-resolution, dotty version of imagebased content.
But what for? it's not going to help me go somewhere. It won't increase access to printed or handwritten data whilst out in public. I can't imagine i'd gain any useful information about ... well, anything... using this thing.
The only remote possibility I can foresee is looking at diagrams for study or work, and because I've not hither-to been able to do that, I've found alternative's anyway.
Am I just being ridiculously negative?
The marketing fluff goes on about the rest of the world seeing things that I can't. Yeah. No shit. It's been that way for over 3 decades now. The implication here seems to be my life will be enriched by having access to a low-resolution, dotty version of imagebased content.
But what for? it's not going to help me go somewhere. It won't increase access to printed or handwritten data whilst out in public. I can't imagine i'd gain any useful information about ... well, anything... using this thing.
The only remote possibility I can foresee is looking at diagrams for study or work, and because I've not hither-to been able to do that, I've found alternative's anyway.
Am I just being ridiculously negative?
mehgcap 3 points 1y ago
If it can do standard braille, then we have a multi-line braille display, and that's huge. If it can't, then it becomes more niche, but it's still a good option. I would have loved in school, for graphs, diagrams, instant coordinate planes, maps, and so on. When I make or update websites, someone else does the visual stuff, but I'd still like a way to do a basic check to see if elements are overlapping or if something is way off from where I thought it would appear visually on the screen. Basically, I can certainly imagine plenty of valid use cases, but they won't apply to everyone.
retrolental_morose 2 points 1y ago
I do software and UX too. But I can't see I'd bea able to rely on this to do away with sighted eyes entirely on any of my projects - insuring things aren't on top of eachother might be nice, but my sighted help would still need to resize, never mind checking contrast and, such.
I guess the price point simply renders this massively out of my range, particularly if it doesn't do braille well. we've spent decades in the AT industry finding ways around using graphics and to me, this seems to reinforce the sighted ideal of see as we see and you can do as we do.
I do agree on the academic side - although if so few sighted teachers can supply a blind person with robust chart or diagram creation skills, it might be more a cruelty than a help there too.
I guess the price point simply renders this massively out of my range, particularly if it doesn't do braille well. we've spent decades in the AT industry finding ways around using graphics and to me, this seems to reinforce the sighted ideal of see as we see and you can do as we do.
I do agree on the academic side - although if so few sighted teachers can supply a blind person with robust chart or diagram creation skills, it might be more a cruelty than a help there too.
mehgcap 2 points 1y ago
I agree that it won't let us do away with sighted help. Still, for demos and mockups, it would help to at least know things are laid out somewhat sensibly. That said, the price is definitely a major factor, and will put this out of reach of plenty of adults. Students whose schools, state agencies, or other organizations can buy them a unit are a different story, though, and I think they'll benefit from near instant raised-line images than your comment suggested.
I'm also hopeful that this all gets better. For decades, a single line of braille was thousands of dollars, and now it's $600, or double that for forty cells. Now that a major company like Apple has put their name behind this, even if indirectly, it could make other companies try to come up with less expensive solutions. Technology and material science are evolving more rapidly than ever; maybe, in a few years, there's a cheap way to render raised graphics and braille because this device kicked off the market for such devices, and a new company found a better way. Or I'm hopelessly optimistic and the whole electronic tactile graphics thing fizzles. That's definitely a real possibility.
I'm also hopeful that this all gets better. For decades, a single line of braille was thousands of dollars, and now it's $600, or double that for forty cells. Now that a major company like Apple has put their name behind this, even if indirectly, it could make other companies try to come up with less expensive solutions. Technology and material science are evolving more rapidly than ever; maybe, in a few years, there's a cheap way to render raised graphics and braille because this device kicked off the market for such devices, and a new company found a better way. Or I'm hopelessly optimistic and the whole electronic tactile graphics thing fizzles. That's definitely a real possibility.
retrolental_morose 1 points 1y ago
I like your first happiel thought best! Let's hope for that one. :)
ukifrit 2 points 1y ago
That's basically what I think. Guys get all excited about the new toes and forget to do the basics, like printing stuff in braille or properly formating their PDFs.
Fridux [OP] 1 points 1y ago
The use is accessing applications and content that is otherwise inaccessible to us. The resolution might be low, but that limitation is likely offset by having the ability to zoom and pan. In my personal case it would also help immensely with the development of graphical stuff, which I currently do using touchscreens despite being totally blind. People around me lack both the required technical expertise and attention to detail that I have, so a product that would enable me to not just blindly trust sighted people when it comes to graphics would be almost life changing for me.
retrolental_morose 1 points 1y ago
your first use case is predicated on the fact that the tactile output willalso allow you to interact with the display in some way.
"seeing" an inaccessible app's screen is one thing, being able to activate very specific parts of it with a mouse, say, may prove challenging. you might need 3 hands just to line things up, assuming the refresh rate and zoom is of a sufficient comp'lexity .
As to your second point, that's of fair enough. I can't imagine there's very many in your shoes.
"seeing" an inaccessible app's screen is one thing, being able to activate very specific parts of it with a mouse, say, may prove challenging. you might need 3 hands just to line things up, assuming the refresh rate and zoom is of a sufficient comp'lexity .
As to your second point, that's of fair enough. I can't imagine there's very many in your shoes.
r_1235 1 points 1y ago
Yup, this dotpad is an awsom concept. I will be working with lot of data and charts soon, something like this could surely help. Don't think can aford it any time soon though. And government doesn't pay for anything.
[deleted] 1 points 1y ago
Besides being inhibitively expensive? Yeah, they are cool. But in my price range probably not. Probably have to save up for a year or 2 and get someone else to buy it for me. Or something.
GreatSunJester 1 points 1y ago
I am not sure about it be super expensive. When they were originally showing this dot technology at a CSUN years ago, they were saying it was far cheaper than the current braille cell costs.
Of course, that may have changed.
Of course, that may have changed.
ChipsAhoiMcCoy 1 points 1y ago
Where are you live are there any services meant to help the blind? The article states that it should be easily within peoples reach the other use of organizations meant to help disabled folk and everything so I’m very excited for this hopefully you can get your hands on one as well I signed up to be an early adopter but we will have to see how it goes. It is important to know though that the screen only refreshes one time per second which should hopefully be enough for most used cases but there are some that it will not be useful for like real time video games to an extent might be playable a lot more playable with us than with not but very nice and very exciting technology are used to watch anime and stuff when I had better vision and instead of asking someone to describe the characters to me I’ll actually be able to feel what the characters look like with us which is pretty phenomenal I know you can’t feel color or anything but still a lot more information which is kind of awesome
[deleted] 1 points 1y ago
Yeah, not here unless you are with the state.
Fridux [OP] 1 points 1y ago
Not sure about the rest of the world, but here in Portugal we are entitled to a full rebate on the costs of accessibility equipment through Social Security, so the price shouldn't be a problem.
In any case how much does one of these cost? I searched the web and found nothing. They say that these devices use electro-magnetism rather than piezoelectric crystals, which as I understand it, is what makes most Braille displays expensive.
In any case how much does one of these cost? I searched the web and found nothing. They say that these devices use electro-magnetism rather than piezoelectric crystals, which as I understand it, is what makes most Braille displays expensive.
[deleted] 1 points 1y ago
Not sure but one would guess not cheap. There’s no such thing here unless you get the state to buy you a unit.
Fridux [OP] -1 points 1y ago
Was thinking about programmatically making a logo for a personal website, decided to search for tactile graphical displays for the blind on Google, and found a link to a news article talking about this device.
According to what I've read around, they have a partnership with Apple, so support on Apple devices is already available since iOS 15.2 even though the device itself, which will likely be produced by Humanware and released in 2023, isn't.
The resolution seems very low at the moment with just 2400 dots in the whole display, but I feel pretty excited about this none the less since it will allow for zooming, rotating, and panning images.
According to what I've read around, they have a partnership with Apple, so support on Apple devices is already available since iOS 15.2 even though the device itself, which will likely be produced by Humanware and released in 2023, isn't.
The resolution seems very low at the moment with just 2400 dots in the whole display, but I feel pretty excited about this none the less since it will allow for zooming, rotating, and panning images.
Rethunker 2 points 1y ago
Dot had a demo version of a device like this at CSUN in 2020. It was very cool, and the folks from Dot were very easy to talk to.
I have a Dot watch. Although I understand some folks don’t like the Braille on the Dot watch, the lightness and low cost of the cells are a wonder.
I have a Dot watch. Although I understand some folks don’t like the Braille on the Dot watch, the lightness and low cost of the cells are a wonder.
bradley22 1 points 1y ago
It does sound pretty awesome!
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