Bring your karma
Join the waitlist today
HUMBLECAT.ORG

Blind and Visually Impaired Community

Full History - 2022 - 06 - 27 - ID#vm0gx9
0
A christian perspective: being blind makes you trust God more. (self.Blind)
submitted by SiriuslyGranger
[removed]
DarkDan3 18 points 1y ago
That's nice, but I'd rather have confidence in myself and my own abilities then rely on someone or something else. That way if I end up in some kind of trouble I only have myself to blame. I learn from my mistakes and it makes me stronger. In my opinion, to surrender all that to some kind of higher power is to also deny your own accomplishments. I always hear religious people say God helped me do this and God helped me do that. Like, wouldn't you have liked to have been the one to have achieved your goals? That's just my two cents though.
RapperNev 2 points 1y ago
I don't agree with all of the ideas attached to it but knowledge of self made so much more sense to me than the Christianity I was raised with.
Don't get me wrong while I'm jaded by the out loud and forceful nature of some of these people I am also friends with many who practice faith because it enriches themselves.
retrolental_morose 15 points 1y ago
hoo-boy!
Laser_Lens_4 14 points 1y ago
\*grabs popcorn and waits for the flames to rise
Emmenias 11 points 1y ago
Yes, I agree with you! Indeed, I was an atheist before, but being seemingly cast into darkness allowed me to see the *true light*. Now that I no longer rely on my eyes to "see", I rely on my Lord's arm to lead me where I need to go.

But brother, it worries me how little people around me trust in the Almighty. Though I have changed for the better, my family and friends yet question me, unable to see what I see. And I cannot help but think that this un-enlightening was a message, a message from above ...

We must stab everybody's eyes out! We must share this feeling of greater trust with the unbelievers! Only then can we vanquish atheism and all become one with our Lord!
smarthome_fan 6 points 1y ago
The sad part of this thread is I actually downvoted you first because it sounded so believable lol. Was going to write a snarky reply until it finally dawned on me that this was satirical. See this is how much this rhetoric can mess with your head.
Emmenias 3 points 1y ago
Haha! Well you're not the only one who didn't catch on, so perhaps I overdid it? But yes, it was indeed satire. I've been blind since birth and an atheist just as long, and (unfortunately?) haven't stabbed anybody's eyes out yet.

Could be worse though. At least I did not write a long essay on the importance and advantages of eye-stabbing, similar to that of the eating of children in "A Modest Proposal". Now that is one delightfully disturbing (hopefully) satirical read.
smarthome_fan 3 points 1y ago
No, it was very well done. :) You should be a writer. The "cast into darkness/seeing the true light" was just the perfect metaphor.

Satirical pieces should be just at the point where the reader has to mentally check them-self about the seriousness. People also took A Modest Proposal seriously.
Wooden_Suit5580 -2 points 1y ago
I am totally blind, and I have young grandchildren. I could never presume to Stay about bears or anyone else’s eyes just so they could share in somebody’s faith!!! That is NOT love!!!
Wooden_Suit5580 -1 points 1y ago
Why do you wish to harm others by stabbing their eyes out?
keefklaar 5 points 1y ago
Not too quick on picking up satire I see
SightlessBastard 1 points 1y ago
Well, to be fair, you can never be sure about that when it comes to religion.
smarthome_fan 3 points 1y ago
This is the scary part.
Unlikely-Database-27 10 points 1y ago
Nope.
JustSomeBlindGuy 9 points 1y ago
I used to be Christian too, born into it in fact, also born blind. But after about 20 years of false hope and empty promises, I slowly came to the realization that, either God is an insecure jerk who would blind somebody just so he could show off how cool he is later on, or that there was no God, and genetic abnormalities just happened sometimes.
I, along with friends and family, have achieved more in the last eight years since rejecting religion, then faith or any God has done for me in the previous 20 years of being Christian.
Aggressive-Yoghurt31 9 points 1y ago
I'd rather not trust and rely on someone who blinded me
Mamamagpie 7 points 1y ago
My vision loss sent me from atheist to agnostic to polytheistic to 1st Degree initiate in a Wiccan tradition.
Tarnagona 4 points 1y ago
If your faith and belief in God/Jesus help you cope with your sight loss, that’s fine. If you want to share that with other people of faith, that’s fine. Your last paragraph, though…nope.

I was born mostly blind;I’ve seen the same amount my entire life. Thus, my blindness has never really had anything to do with my religion. I grew up Christian, became Kemetic (ancient Egyptian paganism), and eventually an atheist. I simply don’t have good enough evidence for the gods’ existence. Much as I want to continue believing that the gods are out there, listening to me and helping me out, I can’t. I can’t choose to believe in something just because I want it to be true.

But again, my vision loss has nothing to do with this. It’s not: a loving god wouldn’t make me blind; therefore there is no god. I don’t think I ever even prayed for sight. I became an atheist for the same reasons that sighted people become atheists.

And unfortunately, while many religions people are chill, including my various religious friends, there is a vocal subset that pair their evangelism with a dose of ableism that I have no patience for. These are the complete strangers who approach me on the street to tell me that Jesus will heal me if I will only believe. I do think it comes from a good place, but also from the assumption that every blind person must be miserable and desperate to have full sight. They don’t stop to ask what I want to pray about, because obviously I want my sight back. Meanwhile, I don’t miss what I never had and am already living my best blind life.

Anyway, as a consequence, this has made me both wary and impatient with anyone wanting to “share the good news”, just waiting for the part where they assume I hate my life because of my eyes. I cope with this now by taking the opportunity to question their beliefs, share why I don’t believe, and maybe sow a little doubt, not really maliciously. I want people to make decisions based on the best evidence, and critically examining one’s deeply-held beliefs is part of that. That’s how I became an atheist. Anyway, if you approach me to talk about your beliefs, I figure that’s an invitation to questions and discussion about them.

Suffice to say, this post came off, especially that last paragraph, as less about sharing your own experience, and more about converting strangers to your beliefs. And frankly, I’ve tried Christianity, and it didn’t hold up under scrutiny.
smarthome_fan 2 points 1y ago
> And unfortunately, while many religions people are chill, including my various religious friends, there is a vocal subset that pair their evangelism with a dose of ableism that I have no patience for. These are the complete strangers who approach me on the street to tell me that Jesus will heal me if I will only believe. I do think it comes from a good place, but also from the assumption that every blind person must be miserable and desperate to have full sight. They don’t stop to ask what I want to pray about, because obviously I want my sight back. Meanwhile, I don’t miss what I never had and am already living my best blind life.

Your whole message is just...so beautifully written and well-said. But especially this paragraph. It really resonated with me. Thank you.
Tarnagona 1 points 1y ago
Thank you. I have…strong opinions about this, all the people who assume I am helpless and miserable and without hope because of my eyes. Well-meaning, but misplaced evangelism is only one way it manifests (also people thinking I’m amazing for doing mundane tasks, or saying I don’t look/act blind…it’s a whole thing)
SiriuslyGranger [OP] -1 points 1y ago
Definitely not suppose to just saying that it does help me especially. That last paragraph could easily be skipped if wanted. That’s why it’s a new paragraph and at the end. Almost a btw note.
Tarnagona 1 points 1y ago
Fair enough. Unfortunately, along with the post addressing the audience “you” throughout, and then with that paragraph at the end, it reads as proselytizing, rather than as you sharing your experience. If you had used “I” statements throughout, that reads as sharing your experience.

For example, I made a post last year sharing my experience seeing the moon through a telescope because it was a really neat experience for me. Throughout, I talked about what I saw, and what I did. If I’d written that same post as YOU looking through a telescope and YOU seeing the moon, I’d have rightly gotten a lot of flack for telling others what their experience should be when I have no way of knowing that.

So, if your intent is to share what helped you and your experience, and you don’t want the backlash, you’re going to need to make that clearer in your post. Lots of people have not had great experiences with evangelical types, some even have trauma resulting from run-ins with strongly religious types. So being told “you should trust in god; god did this to you for a reason; god will give you the strength” aren’t the positive message you may think they are.

However, if you tell us “god gives me hope; god did this me to for a reason; god gives me the strength”, I would have had no reason to comment. It’s not my thing, but you do you.

I think I’m repeating myself. XD but I hope you can understand what I’m trying to illustrate and where I’m coming from.
SiriuslyGranger [OP] 0 points 1y ago
And that last paragraph is a greeting out and comes straight from Paul. Actually. It’s so funny because people say stuff like chao love and light to you or whatever they say. So why can’t I say peace and grace to you all? Haha! It’s a greeting.

I think a lot of this bitterness and lashing out here has to do with projections honestly.

And no I don’t agree with you. The wording here can be uplifting too. Some other inspirational post is also written like that there was one before me that was.
Tarnagona 2 points 1y ago
Unfortunately, your post has disappeared, but the paragraph I was referring to was not your good-bye, but the last full paragraph where you talk to people who don’t know/have/believe in god, that he is waiting for you (again, don’t have the exact wording). That’s just straight up preaching any way you slice it as you are now not even addressing other people of faith any more. And hey, I wasn’t overly keen on the other post being written to “you”, but didn’t feel the need to comment because while it was meant to be inspirational, it wasn’t trying to convert me to a religion, which that paragraph about god waiting for us if we’d only believe, or whatever, definitely seemed to be.

And yes, in case you were wondering, I’d’ve had the same reaction to an evangelical Muslim or Hindu or Pagan or Law of Attraction person. This is an objection to proselytizing, not to Christianity.

(If you want to have a conversation about why I don’t believe and why you do, I’m down for that, too, but I figure, that’s a different conversation and not really relevant to the topic at hand)
TwoSunsRise 3 points 1y ago
I have multiple blind people in my family and they are all religious. Their faith has carried them through a lot and is a comfort to them.
SiriuslyGranger [OP] 2 points 1y ago
Well I am glad to hear this, which is what I am trying to say here. I do think faith is important and I think for us who are blind, it is even more important to lean on God. Definitely not everyone has to believe that, would be cool, but yeah.

Good to hear about this though. And I am glad it’s providing them comfort.
smarthome_fan 1 points 1y ago
I just saw this on Twitter today: “The Americans with Disabilities Act was passed in 1990. Christian denominations lobbied against the Act, and in fact churches (and all related organizations) are completely exempt from its Title III provisions. Remember that when churches tell you they’ll “take care” of people.”
ABlindManPlays 2 points 1y ago
We all have different experiences and react in different ways. Personally, I find that if I dwell in bitterness, it makes my life worse and it makes things worse for those who care about me. Yes, things aren't perfect. But there's been blessings too. I just think that no matter what you believe, using it to make yourself kinder and showing grace to others and yourself is far more important that dwelling on the 'might have been'. Also understanding where something comes from, like a place of love, is more important than what is given to us.


Hate, vitriol, bile, bitterness... the world has enough of it. Lashing out just causes more hurt than already exists.
SiriuslyGranger [OP] 2 points 1y ago
Yes I agree which is why I wrote this post as light and grace to people.
Itsthejoker 1 points 1y ago
Mod note -- everyone deals with things in different ways. Some turn to themselves, some turn to drink, and some turn to the sky.

If you want to comment on this because you want to fight the religion point: **don't**.

If you're not religious, that's fine; there's no reason to pick a fight. OP has just as much right to be religious as someone else has to not be (or of a different religion).

tl;dr: if you don't have anything nice to say, move on.
MostlyBlindGamer 3 points 1y ago
I don't feel a need to intervene in whatever discussion might come of this post, but I'm afraid this sweeping statement, dedicated to this topic, comes close to infantilizing religious people as incapable of dealing with criticism or, much worse, demonizing them as being entirely antagonistic to it.

The bottom line is we're all "grown-ups" here and capable of being kind and empathetic. Those who may not be should receive a swift kick in whatever side makes them do better, of course.
Itsthejoker 2 points 1y ago
I hear what you're saying, and it's entirely possible that I could have worded the original message better. Some other large communities I mod quickly descend into madness whenever religion is brought up, so it's often better to make a sweeping statement than nothing at all. As it is, the reports on this post and on my comment are... colorful.
keefklaar 3 points 1y ago
> Some other large communities I mod quickly descend into madness whenever religion is brought up

Or how about you disallow religious posts as it has nothing to do with Blindness. There's a myriad of religious subs they can post in.

Or are Christian viewpoints the only ones allowed?

Would you be as welcoming of religious posts from a religion that a Christian would find offensive?
gunfart 6 points 1y ago
yeah, if someone made a similar post but replaced jesus with satan and said "my dark lord" instead of the typical happy sounding terms for some positive spiritual leader, would it be allowed? would i have my post removed for thanking the blessed bloodlust lord lucifer the almighty dark one for granting me a new vision on life?

gotta remember, if one version is allowed you gotta let all others exist as well.

hail satan!
Itsthejoker 2 points 1y ago
> Would you be as welcoming

Absolutely. I only requested that people not pick fights about religion, which definitely is what happened anyway.
smarthome_fan -1 points 1y ago
Couldn't agree more. Religious posts are more than welcome, but they should be in their own space dedicated to preaching.
MostlyBlindGamer 1 points 1y ago
I entirely disagree. I do not believe this coming would descend into madness for any reason, really.

I also disagree with the idea that religious viewpoints are not to be challenged. I'm sure you got colorful responses - in private. Your message was that the opinions expressed in this post were not to be challenged, questioned, opposed or, effectively, even discussed.

This sub routinely tells suicidal people to shower and get a job, yet you built a wall around this individual? Why?
Itsthejoker 2 points 1y ago
> yet you built a wall around this individual

I disagree with this phrasing, but if anything it's because I was here and was trying to prevent this very discussion. Clearly, that wasn't what ended up happening. Besides, conversations like this usually descend quickly into flame wars, as we're seeing below.
smarthome_fan 1 points 1y ago
Couldn't agree more. This is deeply problematic on, like, so many levels. For all the reasons you just outlined.
lvlint67 -4 points 1y ago
> comes close to infantilizing religious people

Do you feel that way?

I'm pretty sure the comment, "hey this isn't the place or the time to wage your anti-holy war" is an entirely reasonable comment and guideline to lay out in clear text. Given that we are, after all, on the internet where such things do have a tendency to devolve rapidly.
keefklaar 5 points 1y ago
> I'm pretty sure the comment, "hey this isn't the place or the time to wage your anti-holy war"

You could also make the case that isn't the place for OPs proselytizing either., it's a blind sub not a religion sub
lvlint67 0 points 1y ago
I think that's more of an uphill battle.

I'm personally pretty anti-religious but ignoring the "coping" aspect of religion and marginalizing OP's attempt to share their experiences in dealing with the trials of day to day life is silly.

I think OP could have handled the end better, but it seems like this might be new to them and they are still feeling out appropriate ways to share that experience.

as for your comment in the other thread:

> Or are Christian viewpoints the only ones allowed?

no one has suggested that and you seem to be baiting out a discussion on the merits of religion that isn't grounded in the experiences of the people here. I'm not sure I want to personally support such behavior...

If you can't discuss the issue without marginalizing the experiences of others or just don't want to see the discussion of those experiences at all, maybe you are unqualified to participate.
MostlyBlindGamer 1 points 1y ago
It's infantilizing everybody. Religious people can't have their beliefs challenged and non-religious people can't be trusted not to harass others.
smarthome_fan 1 points 1y ago
I'm also going to call you out on this response. A simple "keep it civil" would have sufficed just fine. OP posted something that's incredibly triggering to many people and the message from the mods is that people have to basically shut up and deal with it. That's really not fair or appropriate.
Itsthejoker 1 points 1y ago
Thanks for the feedback and I appreciate it. As expressed in the other comments, I meant to communicate something much closer to what you wrote.
smarthome_fan 0 points 1y ago
Yeah I mean in all honesty this would be like me, a guy, going into the TWOX community and telling women there what they are allowed to talk about and what not. Blind people probably have very strong feelings about this topic, it might be better to have some moderators who have vision-loss.
Itsthejoker 1 points 1y ago
You'll be happy to know then that I'm in the minority here in that regard; you can check the flairs of the other mods in the sidebar for more information.
SiriuslyGranger [OP] -1 points 1y ago
Thank you!! People can post other types of inspirational messages but I can’t as a Christian? I just feel a little and welcomed by them but I appreciate your reply .
keefklaar 4 points 1y ago
You didn't post an inspirational message. You posted to preach and proselytize.

The whole text of your post is encouraging others to worship your god.

Going by your post history you're an evangelist. An evangelist by definition is one who preaches to convert others to their faith.

Isn't lying/dishonesty against your faith?
SiriuslyGranger [OP] -1 points 1y ago
Maybe that’s how you perceived it but it wasn’t.
keefklaar 3 points 1y ago
It's literally the words you wrote.
smarthome_fan 2 points 1y ago
I'm comfortable making the sweeping statement that in general, religion isn't very disability-positive. Being blinded is the most dreadful thing that can happen to sinnersin the bible, and most blind people I know have had the experience of religious folk interupting them throughout their day and making really contradictory and unwelcome remarks. These can range from:

* You can get your vision back if you believe in Jesus.
* Your blindness is a gift.
* What did you do/what deadly sin did your parents do to make you blind?
* (to whoever is with you) Good for you for being friends with/associating with this blind person.
* Often without your permission, physically touching (assaulting?) you like putting their hand on your head and starting to pray. I let one guy do this just to avoid angering him, eventually I told him I needed to go catch my bus.

So I think your experience is 100% fine to post about, but I hope you understand why the community is also sharing their thoughts back at you.
SiriuslyGranger [OP] 0 points 1y ago
I feel like it is very discriminatory here. You can’t discriminate by religion? I thought that blind people had enough discrimination against them.

I think some of the things you listed are not totally bad at all. What is wrong with it being a sort of gift from God or there is a purpose? I as a blind person do believe this.

I do think that in a lot of ways yes and no your vision can be healed. God has healed people, himself through others in the medical field and through prayer just talking and fellowshipping to him. Also no he won’t heal you, it all depends on his plan and divine will. One just has to trust him.

I am not saying anyone else has to believe this but I deeply do. So why doesn’t anyone just let me believe this. If john can write inspirational messages why can’t I even if it’s christian.
smarthome_fan 1 points 1y ago
Why would God blind someone and then turn around and heal them? Seems like a lot of extra work with very little return?

People are healed in the medical field by humans: skilled doctors and nurses and lab techs who go to school and study for decades and pour their blood, sweat and tears into healing you. If we could all be healed through prayer, no one would need health insurance, and we could close down all the hospitals. COVID-19 would never have happened. No entire countries would literally be starving because their governments don't have the resources to feed them.

It's fine to believe what you believe and no one should discriminate against that. It's just that others also believe what they believe, and it's perfectly valid to share alternative viewpoints. Personally I just find it annoying when people assume I want to heal my blindness, or that it's a gift, or that my parents sinned and that's why I'm blind, or whatever. It's simply a part of me. I don't want unsolicitedadvice about what I could, would or should do or feel. It's just annoying to be out on a date, or with your family, or for a kayaking trip at the lake, or whereever, and have someone come up to you and start preaching.
This nonprofit website is run by volunteers.
Please contribute if you can. Thank you!
Our mission is to provide everyone with access to large-
scale community websites for the good of humanity.
Without ads, without tracking, without greed.
©2023 HumbleCat Inc   •   HumbleCat is a 501(c)3 nonprofit based in Michigan, USA.