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Blind and Visually Impaired Community

Full History - 2022 - 07 - 17 - ID#w0zou1
11
Is Text-based user interface (TUI) + screen reader the best workflow to use a computer? (self.Blind)
submitted by Character_Bluejay677
Do the CLI/TUI apps we can access from Windows or Macos terminal provides any advantage over their WIMP counterpart (Windows, Icons, Menu, Pointer)?

TUI is designed to be used by keyboard only, which is great for blind users that can't use a mouse.

Also since the layout is linear and there are no pictures, it seems easier to navigate with text to speech technology.
retrolental_morose 3 points 1y ago
I spent a lot of time in DOS and still do all my Linux work in the terminal, but when you're working with other people, being a total outlier and refusing to interface with a GUI seems a silly move to me. there are some tasks, such as web browsing, editing audio, which I've just never found comfortable from a command line. Windows and mobile screen readers have evolved to work with a GUI, the WIMP terminology is almost WIMK nowadays because 99 times out of a hundred i can use the keyboard in place of the mouse, and of course on touchscreens the finger does that anyway.
Undoubtedly, when visual interfaces were new, screen access tech lagged behind and the CLI remained simpler. These days, to shut ourselves in the past would I think do more harm than good. I'm not against a CLI for tasks where they are used, I'd never want to administrate my servers or databases visually. But equally, there are things where a window works best.
gunfart 3 points 1y ago
i much prefer a text based environment over a graphical one, any day. although i am still just as fast as (if not faster than) any standard windows power user, i feel most comfortable at a command or terminal prompt. as a network administrator, it's so incredibly easy to issue commands on a windows command prompt or powershell instead of chasing down unlabeled buttons buried within menus. tending to linux servers via ssh or modifying sql databases is a breeze at a terminal screen because again, you're not chasing down buttons or sifting through rows and columns of irrelevant info. i can filter out what i don't want to read and have important information front and center with some clever search strings.

console cowboy for life
DariusA92 3 points 1y ago
It might be just me, but I don't like CLI much. It needs too much writing and memorizing commands and flags. It's very accessible, but I think using a good, accessible GUI is faster, easier and more intuitive to use. For example, I'm learning to use git. There are so many commands and flags that I needed to put them in a text file so I wouldn't forget them later. If it was a GUI environment I would just open the menu and choose the appropriate option that is there.
MostlyBlindGamer 4 points 1y ago
I'm much more productive with the Git CLI than any GUI, mainly because of its consistency across operating systems and use cases. I understand how you feel about it as a new user, but when you use three different environments on a daily basis and Git is one of the constants, you'll really want that.

I'd also argue screen reader users memorize dozens of keyboard shortcuts for every graphical app and when using the command line you can usually just add a -h flag and then be on your way.

Overall, both interfaces require getting used to, but I often prefer command lines.
Fridux 2 points 1y ago
I used to be a heavy text console user back when I had sight. At one point in my life when I felt like using Linux exclusively I only ran a graphical user interface because of the web browser, so I do have a lot of experience. However now that I'm blind I prefer the semantics of graphical user interfaces when they work properly with screen-readers. I don't shy away from text consoles and do use them a lot when I code, but everything else I do using graphical user interfaces and don't think I'm changing my mind any time soon.

A problem that nobody mentioned with text-based applications is that many of them use ncurses, which is a library designed to render basic user interface elements such as dialogs, buttons, text boxes, scrollable lists, and so on in text terminals, and that makes them quite annoying to navigate because it's just text without any semantics that the screen-reader can recognize, so I have to move the screen-reader cursor up and down the terminal to find the information I'm looking for, hope that highlighting something makes a change that can be picked up by the terminal and announced by the screen-reader, and hope that I didn't miss anything important. Vim, an editor that I used a lot back in the day, is one such application, and since I'm yet to find an accessible graphical user interface port, I had to stop using it completely.

Finally, I have a problem with long output in text consoles, because the screen-reader cursor positions itself at the text caret by default, which forces me to move the cursor up a lot to find the command prompt where I typed the command and begin reading from there. Rust's error messages and the output of manual pages are two examples where this annoys me. I do have a solution for this, which is piping the output of some commands to TextMate, but even this is not very comfortable since I have to redirect all stderr output to stdout in some cases while in other cases I have to pipe the output to `col` in order to remove terminal controls, and it also requires me to install `rmate` and all of its dependencies on any remote machine or even local container where I have to edit files. Apple's Terminal has commands that allow for quickly jumping from command prompt to command prompt, but unfortunately these commands do not cause the screen-reader's cursor to be moved so they are of no use to me.

Just like with graphical user interfaces, there's still a lot to be done when it comes to bringing comfort to blind users in text consoles. It's possible to use them, but it's not an experience that I enjoy.
Character_Bluejay677 [OP] 2 points 1y ago
I totally agree with the lack of semantic of TUI interface, that's why I use only CLI. When I need a TUI, I jump to GUI. Otherwise I think if multiline Braille display become cheaper in the future (I'm always dreaming), they will be very capable to make the CLI app even more accessible (you'll have the time to read the output for each commands using your two-hands).
SightlessKombat 2 points 1y ago
Personally, I would disagree - having used GUI elements for as long as I can remember even having had no sight whatsoever, I can't understand the constant advocation for terminal usage as a daily driver unless you've been permanently locked into using it.
Character_Bluejay677 [OP] 1 points 1y ago
Maybe with a Braille display the command-line would become a no-brainer for you. I agree with you otherwise that GUI elements have better semantics distinguishing between icons and text.
devinprater 1 points 11m ago
I could be, if you have a screen reader that reads the console properly. NVDA doesn't read it so well these days, especially in Windows terminal. ConHost.exe works well though, lol. But TDSR on Mac and ChromeOS work well though.
SiriuslyGranger 1 points 11m ago
I think the guis have gotten pretty good. I think you should be versed at both. I am pretty new to the terminal and such. Come from more of a user IT end of things
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