Blind and Visually Impaired Community
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I'm looking to be an equal-opportunity employer and include blind people in my clientele, and I'd like to research how to do my due diligence in the practicalities of accommodating. Where should I start? (self.Blind)
submitted by AlarmingAffect0
One more thing: this is more of a "conscience" thing, but I still need to justify it to my investors, so I'm also looking for arguments to justify cost-effectiveness, be it because of access to an untapped resource of employees and market of clients, reputation/image, positive knock-on effects on management/scheduling/spatial organization… I'll take anything, it's all ad hoc, as far as I'm concerned, but the more legitimately compelling (to investors and banks) these arguments are, the better.
One thought that comes up off the top of my head is that optimizing a work environment for usage by blind people is a great opportunity to have optimized, streamlined spaces, where every kind of item is in a well-defined, predetermined, accessible place, hazards and obstacles are removed, and things are generally very structured, organized, and predictable. This creates a bit of a learning curve, but ultimately, I suspect, reduces stress and friction considerably. Am I in the ballpark? Or am I missing something?
One thought that comes up off the top of my head is that optimizing a work environment for usage by blind people is a great opportunity to have optimized, streamlined spaces, where every kind of item is in a well-defined, predetermined, accessible place, hazards and obstacles are removed, and things are generally very structured, organized, and predictable. This creates a bit of a learning curve, but ultimately, I suspect, reduces stress and friction considerably. Am I in the ballpark? Or am I missing something?
RobbieC69 6 points 11m ago
Hi
Get in touch with an organisation that provides services to blind and or visually impaired people. They should have knowledge of how to make a workplace safe as well as letting you see for yourself what technologies are available. Bring your outlined business plan with you and they might even be able to provide grants etc.
Here in the UK we have a government scheme called access to work. They will also provide you with help and advice to adapt your workplace as well providing you with free grants and help.
Do some research asking larger companies if they have employees who are Visually impaired/Blind and see how/what they have done to help.
Best of luck with your venture 🤞👍
Get in touch with an organisation that provides services to blind and or visually impaired people. They should have knowledge of how to make a workplace safe as well as letting you see for yourself what technologies are available. Bring your outlined business plan with you and they might even be able to provide grants etc.
Here in the UK we have a government scheme called access to work. They will also provide you with help and advice to adapt your workplace as well providing you with free grants and help.
Do some research asking larger companies if they have employees who are Visually impaired/Blind and see how/what they have done to help.
Best of luck with your venture 🤞👍
Rethunker 2 points 11m ago
“Accessibility is extreme usability.”
One question or comment you could pose to investors, if you can be snarky with them, is something like this: “We we’re thinking of implementing some office changes to reduce efficiency and decrease usability of our development and business operations.” Their reactions would suggest whether they’re awake.
Because obviously you want the opposite: greater efficiency, improved usability, and streamlined operations. And design for accessibility can get you that.
You’re on the right track in thinking that designing for ease of navigating an office and finding materials would be better for everyone.
Some other thoughts:
* Blind and visually impaired people tend to be underemployed and underpaid. That includes a lot of *great* future employees. Warren Buffett has mentioned the history of women being kept out of the workplace; the same applies to folks with visual disabilities. If you can offer market rate to a capable hire who happens to be blind or visually impaired, everyone wins.
* There may be a local / regional program to connect blind and visually impaired job seekers with internships. It’s a convenient way to get rolling with a potential hire, and you may get more support from the placement agency.
* Some professionals who have a change in vision may become frustrated and not seek out work. You may need to reach out and help convince them to continue in the same field, and at your company. A company doesn’t have to wait for job applicants; you can reach out, and sometimes that means assuring someone uncertain of herself or himself that you can work together to figure out what accessibility tools may be necessary.
* if you imagine the extra effort required for a BVI person to develop skills for which most training is designed for fully sighted people, just imagine the drive and work ethic that person must have.
Ask around the BVI community for software and services with good accessibility. Then compare the software and services with the competition and you’ll find the accessible products are (often) better for everyone. Designing for accessibility takes more effort.
Also, consider that if you are in construction, and if you build something with hood accessibility, you have good marketing right there. Because WOW, lots of buildings have garbage design when it comes to accessibility, discoverability of directions, improper use of glass.
Imagine a Norman door as simply one example of bad design that’s found everywhere, and you start to get a sense of the magnitude of crappiness. Well, maybe to be fair I should call it “sub-optimal design.”
Although a BVI employees shouldn’t be identified as The In-House Accessibility Encyclopedia, that employee could identify problems early on in design meetings that many others will miss. This is one of the advantages of a proper take on diversity, equity, and inclusion: you avoid expensive mistakes. BVI people are going to be very aware of design flaws that affect virtually everyone, but that few people are trained to notice.
(I’m sighted but stereoblind, meaning I have impaired depth perception. I’m more sensitive to visual clutter and to ambiguous depth cues, which made me notice how fully sighted folks could be thrown off by the same conditions, through they might not be conscious of those conditions. That helped lead me to spend years working on making user interactions and user interfaces simpler.)
Check out this profile of Chris Downey, an architect who went blind:
https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/blind-architect-chris-downey-60-minutes-2022-06-19/
Good luck! If you want to connect by private message maybe I could give more specific recommendations.
One question or comment you could pose to investors, if you can be snarky with them, is something like this: “We we’re thinking of implementing some office changes to reduce efficiency and decrease usability of our development and business operations.” Their reactions would suggest whether they’re awake.
Because obviously you want the opposite: greater efficiency, improved usability, and streamlined operations. And design for accessibility can get you that.
You’re on the right track in thinking that designing for ease of navigating an office and finding materials would be better for everyone.
Some other thoughts:
* Blind and visually impaired people tend to be underemployed and underpaid. That includes a lot of *great* future employees. Warren Buffett has mentioned the history of women being kept out of the workplace; the same applies to folks with visual disabilities. If you can offer market rate to a capable hire who happens to be blind or visually impaired, everyone wins.
* There may be a local / regional program to connect blind and visually impaired job seekers with internships. It’s a convenient way to get rolling with a potential hire, and you may get more support from the placement agency.
* Some professionals who have a change in vision may become frustrated and not seek out work. You may need to reach out and help convince them to continue in the same field, and at your company. A company doesn’t have to wait for job applicants; you can reach out, and sometimes that means assuring someone uncertain of herself or himself that you can work together to figure out what accessibility tools may be necessary.
* if you imagine the extra effort required for a BVI person to develop skills for which most training is designed for fully sighted people, just imagine the drive and work ethic that person must have.
Ask around the BVI community for software and services with good accessibility. Then compare the software and services with the competition and you’ll find the accessible products are (often) better for everyone. Designing for accessibility takes more effort.
Also, consider that if you are in construction, and if you build something with hood accessibility, you have good marketing right there. Because WOW, lots of buildings have garbage design when it comes to accessibility, discoverability of directions, improper use of glass.
Imagine a Norman door as simply one example of bad design that’s found everywhere, and you start to get a sense of the magnitude of crappiness. Well, maybe to be fair I should call it “sub-optimal design.”
Although a BVI employees shouldn’t be identified as The In-House Accessibility Encyclopedia, that employee could identify problems early on in design meetings that many others will miss. This is one of the advantages of a proper take on diversity, equity, and inclusion: you avoid expensive mistakes. BVI people are going to be very aware of design flaws that affect virtually everyone, but that few people are trained to notice.
(I’m sighted but stereoblind, meaning I have impaired depth perception. I’m more sensitive to visual clutter and to ambiguous depth cues, which made me notice how fully sighted folks could be thrown off by the same conditions, through they might not be conscious of those conditions. That helped lead me to spend years working on making user interactions and user interfaces simpler.)
Check out this profile of Chris Downey, an architect who went blind:
https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/blind-architect-chris-downey-60-minutes-2022-06-19/
Good luck! If you want to connect by private message maybe I could give more specific recommendations.
AlarmingAffect0 [OP] 2 points 11m ago
I absolutely love this comment. More detailed response tomorrow. I should be sleeping now.
napoleon88 2 points 11m ago
You mention that your business is highly tech based.
One thing that you might consider doing is, whenever you’re thinking about procuring a new software product for the business, insist that it is certified accessible. Their international accessibility standards, though a lot of software manufacturers don’t pay attention to them.
It is a bit of a myth to say that if a business is computer-based, it is more accessible, especially with modern software packages.
So, the best thing you can do to foster an environment of blind inclusion, is to insist that any software package, you procure is accessible, and is maintained in an accessible way. Particularly useful for Cloud-based packages.
One thing that you might consider doing is, whenever you’re thinking about procuring a new software product for the business, insist that it is certified accessible. Their international accessibility standards, though a lot of software manufacturers don’t pay attention to them.
It is a bit of a myth to say that if a business is computer-based, it is more accessible, especially with modern software packages.
So, the best thing you can do to foster an environment of blind inclusion, is to insist that any software package, you procure is accessible, and is maintained in an accessible way. Particularly useful for Cloud-based packages.
AlarmingAffect0 [OP] 1 points 11m ago
Excellent!
I first became familiar with accessibility through Linux packages. The FOSS world seems to pay more overt attention to this issue.
Ideologically, I'd prefer to work with FOSS all the time, but I know that's not always possible.
I first became familiar with accessibility through Linux packages. The FOSS world seems to pay more overt attention to this issue.
Ideologically, I'd prefer to work with FOSS all the time, but I know that's not always possible.
Aquaireeus 3 points 11m ago
My last job I ended up becoming the accessibility manager at a Silicon Valley tech company.
I took it on because I kept finding our stuff wasn't meeting those standards so I just started doing it on my own. I created a lot of material to persuade management ro invest more.
There's lot of great stats on how much money companies lose when their software isn't accessible and lots of stats showing how ADA lawsuits have increased significantly.
I'd start there.
I took it on because I kept finding our stuff wasn't meeting those standards so I just started doing it on my own. I created a lot of material to persuade management ro invest more.
There's lot of great stats on how much money companies lose when their software isn't accessible and lots of stats showing how ADA lawsuits have increased significantly.
I'd start there.
AlarmingAffect0 [OP] 1 points 11m ago
Oh, cool! Any hints as to where to research those?
Aquaireeus 3 points 11m ago
Deque is a company that has a lot of resources online. So does another company called Level Access.
I'm in the middle of a big move or I'd share what I have with you. If I can remember in the next few days, I'll send you some stuff.
I'm in the middle of a big move or I'd share what I have with you. If I can remember in the next few days, I'll send you some stuff.
napoleon88 0 points 11m ago
In my experience I don't think that open-source world cares more about access...it just so happens that blind people who can code get involved and can build their own solutions sometimes. In practice though, tell your average programmer about accessibility and they will just shrug and dismiss it as a statistically unimportant percentage of the user base.
AlarmingAffect0 [OP] 1 points 11m ago
> it just so happens that blind people who can code get involved and can build their own solutions sometimes
That's another way to put it: rare types of users can take the tools into their own hands and implement solutions to suit their own special needs, down to the individual even.
> In practice though, tell your average programmer about accessibility and they will just shrug and dismiss it as a statistically unimportant percentage of the user base.
It depends on the programmer. Be it empathy, curiosity, challenge-seeking, or perfectionism, some programmers love to spend "disproportionate" amounts of time on "edge cases". There's also a philosophy that having such considerations helps the general product be *better:* more robust, more sound, more intuitive, more pleasant, easier to handle, etc.
That's another way to put it: rare types of users can take the tools into their own hands and implement solutions to suit their own special needs, down to the individual even.
> In practice though, tell your average programmer about accessibility and they will just shrug and dismiss it as a statistically unimportant percentage of the user base.
It depends on the programmer. Be it empathy, curiosity, challenge-seeking, or perfectionism, some programmers love to spend "disproportionate" amounts of time on "edge cases". There's also a philosophy that having such considerations helps the general product be *better:* more robust, more sound, more intuitive, more pleasant, easier to handle, etc.
SiriuslyGranger 2 points 11m ago
I think for your investors citing inclusion and diversity would help. Also there’s so much unemployment of the blind that it would be good to diversify and try to help with this problem? Just an idea and try.
Also look online and maybe advertise positions or internships in blind groups such as this or facebook ones. There is one called career for the blind or something like that on facebook and a few others. Even more general ones.
You don’t have to do this but what my current employer did and it’s very generous is that he was browsing facebook and saw me or was clearly looking for people or at least had some maybe even a little desire to see who stuck out to him, and he offered me an internship and more.
He looked at places for the blind and tried to give people chances though he admittted sometimes it has not been successful.
He’s blind himself. But yeah. Definitely some ways to do it.
Also look online and maybe advertise positions or internships in blind groups such as this or facebook ones. There is one called career for the blind or something like that on facebook and a few others. Even more general ones.
You don’t have to do this but what my current employer did and it’s very generous is that he was browsing facebook and saw me or was clearly looking for people or at least had some maybe even a little desire to see who stuck out to him, and he offered me an internship and more.
He looked at places for the blind and tried to give people chances though he admittted sometimes it has not been successful.
He’s blind himself. But yeah. Definitely some ways to do it.
AlarmingAffect0 [OP] 3 points 11m ago
> I think for your investors citing inclusion and diversity would help.
Not by themselves, I suspect. The only thing *they* care about is the bottom line. Unless I can attach it to some tax breaks or PR. They're largely a bunch of stereotypical rich privileged cishet white men - they might find "inclusion and diversity" actively off-putting or something to only be paid lip service to.
> Also there’s so much unemployment of the blind that it would be good to diversify and try to help with this problem?
They'd read this as "blind persons struggle so much to find employment that they'd be willing to accept to be massively underpaid for the same job at the same efficiency, *and* we can spin this as doing them a favour". Which, you know, might actually be persuasive—but if that were the case, discriminatory hiring practices would be a self-solving problem (and AnCaps *love* to fantasize that it *is).* Still, worth a try.
> He’s blind himself. But yeah. Definitely some ways to do it.
As a member of a discriminated-against group, it always feels great to see our sorts of people actively looking out for each other. *Especially* when they don't give up after not all attempts are a success!
Not by themselves, I suspect. The only thing *they* care about is the bottom line. Unless I can attach it to some tax breaks or PR. They're largely a bunch of stereotypical rich privileged cishet white men - they might find "inclusion and diversity" actively off-putting or something to only be paid lip service to.
> Also there’s so much unemployment of the blind that it would be good to diversify and try to help with this problem?
They'd read this as "blind persons struggle so much to find employment that they'd be willing to accept to be massively underpaid for the same job at the same efficiency, *and* we can spin this as doing them a favour". Which, you know, might actually be persuasive—but if that were the case, discriminatory hiring practices would be a self-solving problem (and AnCaps *love* to fantasize that it *is).* Still, worth a try.
> He’s blind himself. But yeah. Definitely some ways to do it.
As a member of a discriminated-against group, it always feels great to see our sorts of people actively looking out for each other. *Especially* when they don't give up after not all attempts are a success!
SiriuslyGranger 2 points 11m ago
Hmm…. Would they care if the employees were blind or sited? If you got them to invest then hired blind employees would that be such a huge deal to them? Basing it on equal opportunitie type of argument. Basically if the candidate fits the build what does it matter their disability. Can they do the job and earn the money. Yes. Then hire them. That would be the capitalist sort of response I think being one myself. Or fairly right anyway.
Yeah, it’s a pretty cool thing. He at least tries to give equal chances to everyone. Can they succeed are they willing to work that’s on them.
Yeah, it’s a pretty cool thing. He at least tries to give equal chances to everyone. Can they succeed are they willing to work that’s on them.
AlarmingAffect0 [OP] 2 points 11m ago
> That would be the capitalist sort of response I think being one myself.
Paradoxically, Capitalists, as in, the Owner Class, people who own enough wealth that they don't need to work themselves, don't fully optimize all their decisions for maximizing profit. Otherwise, employment discrimination based on gender, race, sexuality, etc wouldn't be a thing.
Paradoxically, Capitalists, as in, the Owner Class, people who own enough wealth that they don't need to work themselves, don't fully optimize all their decisions for maximizing profit. Otherwise, employment discrimination based on gender, race, sexuality, etc wouldn't be a thing.
SiriuslyGranger -1 points 11m ago
Well depends who it is and stuff.
eDisrturbseize 1 points 11m ago
I would contact a local agency for the blind and disabled in your country. They will be helpful.
As far as the capitalist investors:
Explain to them this niche and how you can easily A\B testing in segmentation of this audience.
The CLV or serving a niche and its benefits in the short and long-term.
You can't justify to capitalists that “ it looks good” it's FREE PR that will pay for itself and add to the top of your funnel, passively!
Workplace environment: optimizing performance, space, and open collaboration. Organization, workflow, and appearance for additional clients. Well-defined areas are easier to keep track of and assess.
If no one else is serving that clientele, it would be yours for the taking so long as you did it right, well-researched, and executed.
Perhaps even additional tax write-offs?
Education and health? Wouldn't this be an obvious match for possibly a target audience or user persona?
ROI possibilities ( industry specific which I have no clue on)
If so that would probably help directly and indirectly with bottom line.
As far as the capitalist investors:
Explain to them this niche and how you can easily A\B testing in segmentation of this audience.
The CLV or serving a niche and its benefits in the short and long-term.
You can't justify to capitalists that “ it looks good” it's FREE PR that will pay for itself and add to the top of your funnel, passively!
Workplace environment: optimizing performance, space, and open collaboration. Organization, workflow, and appearance for additional clients. Well-defined areas are easier to keep track of and assess.
If no one else is serving that clientele, it would be yours for the taking so long as you did it right, well-researched, and executed.
Perhaps even additional tax write-offs?
Education and health? Wouldn't this be an obvious match for possibly a target audience or user persona?
ROI possibilities ( industry specific which I have no clue on)
If so that would probably help directly and indirectly with bottom line.
CloudyBeep 1 points 11m ago
What kind of business do you operate? My answer for a restaurateur would be very different to an e-learning startup.
AlarmingAffect0 [OP] 2 points 11m ago
It's an engineering, procurement, consultancy, and construction kind of business. Very heavily computer-based, some functions are very visual (architecture and product design and development), others are very abstract (legal, accounting, procurement, etc). But we're considering branching out into education and skills-training (long story), and maybe working long-term with educational and health institutions.
But, yeah, no in-house canteen or anything like that. We do have a kitchen, though, but the employees cook and such for themselves.
We also don't have a factory/workshop/lab. Not yet, at least.
But, yeah, no in-house canteen or anything like that. We do have a kitchen, though, but the employees cook and such for themselves.
We also don't have a factory/workshop/lab. Not yet, at least.
mashington14 2 points 11m ago
I think making workspaces accessible for blind people is actually a lot easier in a lot of cases than most people think. This is especially true in white collar, computer-based situations. I'm currently typing this on my work computer which has a talking screen reader software on it. The only potential complication is if you use a lot of proprietary or specialized software. Those are often times not built with accessibility in mind since they're not intended for large audiences. Sometimes this can be fixed easily and quickly by developers, and sometimes it's more complicated, so that's a question for someone more knowledgeable than me.
You don't need to worry about forcing hires into the more visual jobs. Maybe some low-vision people could do design or whatever, but somethings are just obviously out of reach. Legal, accounting, admin, and computer-based engineering are very much things that should be doable though.
As far as the physical space in the office goes, there's not much you really should/have to do. Maybe if you actually hire a blind person you could ask them what would be helpful, but for example, the only thing that's changed about my office, where I'm the only blind person, is that we put a couple stickers on the microwave and coffee machine so I could feel where to press.
You don't need to worry about forcing hires into the more visual jobs. Maybe some low-vision people could do design or whatever, but somethings are just obviously out of reach. Legal, accounting, admin, and computer-based engineering are very much things that should be doable though.
As far as the physical space in the office goes, there's not much you really should/have to do. Maybe if you actually hire a blind person you could ask them what would be helpful, but for example, the only thing that's changed about my office, where I'm the only blind person, is that we put a couple stickers on the microwave and coffee machine so I could feel where to press.
AlarmingAffect0 [OP] 1 points 11m ago
Good to know!
SiriuslyGranger 1 points 11m ago
Make sure to hire blind engineers and other such people there’s not many of us in that type of work or as we call it in the us. Stem but there are us out there. You may have to adapt the process or find different software that would work though.
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