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ELI5: How can a butterfly travel thousands of miles and return to the same place without getting lost? (self.explainlikeimfive)
submitted 20h ago by Skipping_Scallywag
JetScootr 1 points 20h ago
Here's the real mystery: How does the monarch butterfly do it? A single migration is actually several generations. The monarchs that finish the migration are never the ones that started it. THere's 4 or 5 generations involved.
No one knows how they do it.
No one knows how they do it.
KyllianPenli 1 points 20h ago
They leave little notes with directions in their wills.
CeeArthur 1 points 16h ago
Butterfly law is a hugely untapped market
Sokiyo 1 points 13h ago
finally giving Bird Law a run for its money
CeeArthur 1 points 12h ago
Bird Law in this country is not governed by reason.
Skipping_Scallywag [OP] 1 points 20h ago
This is my head canon now.
syds 1 points 17h ago
da poop trail
YourFaajhaa 1 points 8h ago
Your wife was murdered
BradMarchandsNose 1 points 15h ago
Are they even really going back to the “same” place or is it just following a general weather pattern/climate? Like say we have a specific butterfly coming from New York, for example. It begins migrating south, it’s offspring continue that migration south. Will that butterfly’s descendants return to New York, or will they just go anywhere north until they reach a climate that’s suitable to them?
oldguy_on_the_wire 1 points 13h ago
I can't speak to the return trip, but the trip south always takes them to the same place in Mexico. I would not be surprised if a butterfly's descendants return to where their ancestors originated.
BradMarchandsNose 1 points 12h ago
The trip south kinda makes sense though. There’s only a small area they can go to in Mexico and be at that latitude just because of the geography of Central America. When they go north, the continent is a lot wider at any given latitude
oldguy_on_the_wire 1 points 12h ago
> There’s only a small area they can go to in Mexico
That 'small area of Mexico' is ~400 miles wide, yet they end up in the same valley....
Further reading at Monarch Watch says that the returning spring migration lays eggs on milkweed as they head north and the butterflies that hatch continue the journey north "to colonize their parent's original homes".
That 'small area of Mexico' is ~400 miles wide, yet they end up in the same valley....
Further reading at Monarch Watch says that the returning spring migration lays eggs on milkweed as they head north and the butterflies that hatch continue the journey north "to colonize their parent's original homes".
RoutinePost7443 1 points 7h ago
They do go to the place their ancestors came from, but that's not only Mexico. There's an overwintering site half a mile from me here in Santa Cruz, and several others nearby with more further south in California. I think ours is the most northerly (Natural Bridges State Park)
oldguy_on_the_wire 1 points 4h ago
There are (to my knowledge) two overwintering sites, the main one in Mexico and a second one on the California coast.
According to Monarch Watch organization (linked in another comment in this thread here this is because Monarch butterflies do not fly over mountains.
According to Monarch Watch organization (linked in another comment in this thread here this is because Monarch butterflies do not fly over mountains.
JetScootr 1 points 2h ago
Researchers tagged individual butterflies, tracked them for generations, tagging the offspring. They return to the same trees in Mexico that their ancestors departed from the previous year.
Science is awesome
Science is awesome
anser_one 1 points 2h ago
They always more or less in the same region of quebec.
08148693 1 points 16h ago
They partake in the spice agony and gain access to the memories if their ancestors
Arrakis_Surfer 1 points 15h ago
I'm here for this comment
MagickalFuckFrog 1 points 14h ago
Username absolutely checks out.
Semyaz 1 points 16h ago
I believe the migration generation lives an exceptionally long time compared to others. Like 9 months compared to 3-4 weeks for other generations.
RManDelorean 1 points 16h ago
I think they also can sense earth's magnetic field like some other migratory animals
Sensitive-Bug-7610 1 points 16h ago
Yeah but how or why like what makes the difference between a migration generation and a nkrmak generation
Christ_McDoogle 1 points 8h ago
Hormones I'd think. Maybe something like locus vs hopper
RoutinePost7443 1 points 7h ago
Yeah, the south ound migration generation has to live long enough to survive the winter. Here in Santa Cruz they arrive in Fall and head back out at the tail end of Winter. But it's horribly sad: just a few years ago we'd get tens of thousands overwintering, last year there were about five hundred; there were perhaps fifteen hundred this year so they haven't quite died out, though prospects don't look good. There's an overwintering site half a mile from my home so I go look frequently. Fucking humans and our poisons ☹️
BringMeYourBullets 1 points 16h ago
We do know how the Monarchs do it. It's a geological funnel. They won't go over the ocean, they won't go to the cold North and they won't go over mountains. That leaves the path to Mexico.
BringMeYourBullets 1 points 16h ago
We do know how the Monarchs do it. It's a geological funnel. They won't go over the ocean, they won't go to the cold North and they won't go over mountains. That leaves the path to Mexico.
RainbowCrane 1 points 16h ago
Always a mind twister to reframe the problem. The question isn’t actually, “how do the find the same spot,” but, “what about this spot makes it the place they come back to.” Turns out they’re not geolocating, they’re just migrating in a corridor and that’s where they run out of gas :-)
audigex 1 points 9h ago
Yeah this is pretty obvious when you look at their migration patterns in Europe - they also migrate south but to a much wider area in North Africa
mollydotdot 1 points 12h ago
I've heard they'll attempt the Atlantic if you bring them to Europe
audigex 1 points 9h ago
Not quite, but they will cross the Med
HauserAspen 1 points 16h ago
They end up at the same mountain in Mexico. One mountain.
BoxMantis 1 points 15h ago
There's many overwintering locations throughout CA, AZ, FL and Mexico. It depends on the subspecies. There's only a handful of really big overwintering locations in Mexico, but it's more than just one mountain.
skelebob 1 points 12h ago
But they can be sighted in the UK, East Asia and Europe. Is everything just Mexico?
JetScootr 1 points 2h ago
I live in houston. When I was a kid (1970s), the monarchs came through Houston area every year. They go out over the Gulf of Mexico now, almost a hundred miles to the east of their previous path. Researchers guess they're avoiding the pollution or the heat of the city.
AshameYGF 1 points 9h ago
so yeah how can they be smart enough to understand how "it" (what even is "it?") works
Christ_McDoogle 1 points 8h ago
"Remember to mow your milk weed :) only after they turn to caterpillar! That way, you win more points." — local government and private fields mowed by lunatics
markisnotcake 1 points 7h ago
It’s not exactly rocket science, they just listen to a humming sound of a certain cartographer bug named “Cornifer”.
DredgenYorMother 1 points 7h ago
Magnets.
IAmRules 1 points 5h ago
Reincarnation
Muddy_Mids 1 points 10h ago
Assassin's Creed was so fucking cool back then when they fucked with this concept
Udaya-Teja 1 points 15h ago
epigenetics and morphic resonance
badgerj 1 points 10h ago
Sure they do! They jus follow u/spez’s mum around. You can smell that from miles away!
mabolle 1 points 37m ago
We know quite a lot about how monarchs do it, actually. It's one of the best-studied animal migration systems out there.
The length of the day tells them what time of year it is, and hence whether to migrate north, migrate south, or stay put. The position of the sun relative to the time of day tells them what direction south/north are. The integration of these pieces of information forms the basis of the main migration route.
So regardless of what the parental generation experienced, if you reach adulthood as a monarch and find that the days are getting shorter, that means it's fall and you need to move south. So you keep the sun on your right during the morning, keep the sun on your left during the afternoon, and fly directly towards the sun at midday.
The length of the day tells them what time of year it is, and hence whether to migrate north, migrate south, or stay put. The position of the sun relative to the time of day tells them what direction south/north are. The integration of these pieces of information forms the basis of the main migration route.
So regardless of what the parental generation experienced, if you reach adulthood as a monarch and find that the days are getting shorter, that means it's fall and you need to move south. So you keep the sun on your right during the morning, keep the sun on your left during the afternoon, and fly directly towards the sun at midday.
Shadowwynd 1 points 20h ago
They aren’t smart enough to actually be able to conceptualize it so it’s going to be something “instinctual”. Our current best guesses are that are keyed to the earth’s magnetic field (Lots of lots of animals navigate this way) - possibly star patterns, or something that is a pattern in ultraviolet (many insects see in UV) that we haven’t noticed yet. The best way we understand it right now, genes can make proteins that preload certain nerve cells with a “default program”. As the nerve cells develop and learn new things, the old program is still running as a neurological model.
For instance, if someone loses an arm, their brain still has a neurological model is expecting that limb to be there, so even though the person knows that the limb is gone there are times in the brain still has phantom pain or itching in a limb that isn’t physically present.
For instance, if someone loses an arm, their brain still has a neurological model is expecting that limb to be there, so even though the person knows that the limb is gone there are times in the brain still has phantom pain or itching in a limb that isn’t physically present.
OneNoteToRead 1 points 16h ago
It’s a plausible theory but AFAIK this hasn’t been tested right?
jdallen1222 1 points 14h ago
OMG, having an insatiable itch on a phantom limb sounds nuts, that would probably drive me insane.
313802 1 points 14h ago
Just scratch it lol /s
Shack691 1 points 10h ago
Well that does work if you trick the brain into thinking a fake limb is real
Airstryx 1 points 6h ago
Isn't there a way to do it by using a mirror and scratching the other arm?
CheesyBadger1 1 points 9h ago
Monarchs do this thing when flying over lake superior where they go around the center of it because millions of years ago there was a mountain there and it's just baked in the instincts now
Christ_McDoogle 1 points 8h ago
Source?
tankmode 1 points 7h ago
or its a giant lake and theres no where to catch a break
Cluefuljewel 1 points 10h ago
Consider how few things that occur in nature are the result of conscious thought. Deep thoughts!
Flat_Plant8170 1 points 13h ago
Wow this is blowing my mind, I never knew any of this before.
Lorentzzz 1 points 15h ago
I like how you admit we have no exact idea how it happens and yet THEY aren’t smart enough
svish 1 points 15h ago
We're smart enough to know it's a thing and smart enough to know we currently don't understand what that thing is.
They are not smart enough to even know there's a thing to know about in the first place.
They are not smart enough to even know there's a thing to know about in the first place.
Zaros262 1 points 12h ago
They don't even know it happens though, so yeah how can they be smart enough to understand how "it" (what even is "it?") works
sneaky_squirrel 1 points 13h ago
The monarch butterfly race is inferior to the human race.
Well said dear human.
*scuttles away*
Well said dear human.
*scuttles away*
pielord599 1 points 13h ago
They didn't plan it, it just happened
HeavyDropFTW 1 points 16h ago
A single butterfly only lives for a few weeks (average). So no single butterfly is going to travel thousands of miles.
So, how do the great great grand baby butterflies know where to go back to? We don't know.
So, how do the great great grand baby butterflies know where to go back to? We don't know.
BoxMantis 1 points 15h ago
North migrating monarchs are multiple generations. South migrating monarchs are a single generation. They go through physiological changes and can live eight times longer than the north migrating spring monarchs.
Surfing_Ninjas 1 points 8h ago
Magnets
CondescendingShitbag 1 points 5h ago
How do they work?
mabolle 1 points 32m ago
> So no single butterfly is going to travel thousands of miles.
The migration record for butterflies within a single generation is about 4000 km (2500 miles). That's in the painted lady butterfly. Like monarchs, they migrate in waves of multiple generations, but an individual painted lady can also fly exceptionally far within its lifetime.
Adult butterfly lifespan is hugely variable between non-migratory, migratory and overwintering individuals, often within the same species. Some butterflies have an adult stage that lasts for most of a year.
The migration record for butterflies within a single generation is about 4000 km (2500 miles). That's in the painted lady butterfly. Like monarchs, they migrate in waves of multiple generations, but an individual painted lady can also fly exceptionally far within its lifetime.
Adult butterfly lifespan is hugely variable between non-migratory, migratory and overwintering individuals, often within the same species. Some butterflies have an adult stage that lasts for most of a year.
KidenStormsoarer 1 points 8h ago
Fun fact: butterflies will migrate around obstacles that no longer exist
https://gizmodo.com/butterflies-remember-a-mountain-that-hasnt-existed-for-509321799
https://gizmodo.com/butterflies-remember-a-mountain-that-hasnt-existed-for-509321799
call_me_jelli 1 points 8h ago
I was part of a research team studying monarchs last year and this part always felt kind of spooky.
B1SQ1T 1 points 7h ago
It’s a family tradition to go around
hobohipsterman 1 points 5h ago
"Biologists, and certain geologists, believe that"
This does not fill me with confidence in that theory.
This does not fill me with confidence in that theory.
KidenStormsoarer 1 points 5h ago
Good thing it isn't a theory, then. It's a hypothesis.
technophebe 1 points 2h ago
I wonder is it more that it's difficult to persuade geologists to take enough of an interest in a butterfly related question, and do enough research on it that they feel comfortable taking a position on it, than that the hypothesis is weak?
mabolle 1 points 26m ago
I tried and failed to find a scientific source (or any kind of original source) for this story a few years ago. Pretty sure it's a myth.
It doesn't even make sense as a scenario. Mountains are worn down on time frames of millions of years. The North American monarch population hasn't enjoyed a stable and continuous existence for that long. Lake Superior was covered in ice during the most recent ice age — there wouldn't have been any monarchs migrating that far north. Whatever behavior they exhibit in that area must have been established after glaciation, and long, long after the existence of any mountain where the lake now lies.
It doesn't even make sense as a scenario. Mountains are worn down on time frames of millions of years. The North American monarch population hasn't enjoyed a stable and continuous existence for that long. Lake Superior was covered in ice during the most recent ice age — there wouldn't have been any monarchs migrating that far north. Whatever behavior they exhibit in that area must have been established after glaciation, and long, long after the existence of any mountain where the lake now lies.
[deleted] 1 points 16h ago
[removed]
explainlikeimfive-ModTeam 1 points 14h ago
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Skipping_Scallywag [OP] 1 points 19h ago
I too shall adopt this invisible fairy guide theory. #butterfliesarefairyfriends
explainlikeimfive-ModTeam 1 points 18h ago
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DanfromCalgary 1 points 8h ago
Don't they live for like a week ?
vedderer 1 points 20m ago
I think some desert ants use dead reckoning. Maybe the butterflies do too?
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