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Explain Like I'm Five | Don't Panic!

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ELI5 Would children whose needs were met but were never spoken to throughout their lives develop their own language or would they just not be able to speak? (self.explainlikeimfive)
submitted 7h ago by Ill-Speech-2236
It’s 12:38 am in Texas and this question popped up into my head I did my own research and saw some varied answers and know it’s unethical. However others were able to conduct this experiment but the outcomes were considered unreliable. What y’all think
KyllianPenli 1 points 6h ago
They'd likely develop a way of communication, but not an entire language. It took humanity between hundreds and tens of thousands of years (depending on which studies you believe) to develop spoken language. One generation would not be able to develop a functional language without learning an existing one for reference.
nostrademons 1 points 50m ago
You should read up on the development of creoles.

tl;dr: Anthropologists have studied situations where groups get together without a mutually intelligible language, eg. first contact between Europeans and Native Americans. When adults do this, they develop a pidgin language (usually within a few weeks) that consists usually of pointing at objects and learning a few words, just the basics needed to communicate. When a pidgin language is spoken in the presence of children, they systematize the grammar and form a new language, called a creole (after Haitian creole, the most prominently studied example). This happens within one generation.

The understanding that children make new languages with a full-fledged grammar and vocabulary was a wildly counterintuitive result that spawned a whole bunch of new linguistic theories, including the theory that the human brain is hard-wired for spoken language acquistion and that there's a biological basis for grammar and phonetics. You can read about these in The Language Instinct. It also underpinned Noam Chomsky's ideas of the Chomsky Hierarchy, a formalization of how grammars work, which in turn started the field of computational linguistics and led to the development of the first programming languages which underpin almost all of modern software engineering.
Seaworthiness-Any 1 points 8m ago
Do people think sign languages are different?

They don't appear to be. The differences mostly appear to be concerned with the modality. For example, I can easily sign "(apple) (currently resting on) (table)" by signing this "sentence" vertically. This even does away with prepositions, as I could sign "(apple) (currently resting next to) (table)". This is how actual sign languages work, and they have a prescribed (temporal!) sign order, just as there would be a prescribed temporal order in spoken language.
nosy-teddy 1 points 6h ago
Emperor Friedrich the Second supposedly did an experiment with children in the 13th century to find out about just that.

Isn't that just terribly gruesome?!?
bloodscythee 1 points 5h ago
Okay but what was the result
PuzzleMeDo 1 points 5h ago
No trustworthy results have been obtained, unfortunately.

>An experiment allegedly carried out by Holy Roman Emperor Frederick II in the 13th century saw young infants raised without human interaction in an attempt to determine if there was a natural language that they might demonstrate once their voices matured. It is claimed he was seeking to discover what language would have been imparted into Adam and Eve by God. The experiments were recorded by the monk Salimbene di Adam in his Chronicles, who was generally extremely negative about Fredrick II (portraying his calamities as parallel to the Biblical plagues in The Twelve Calamities of Emperor Frederick II) and wrote that Frederick encouraged "foster-mothers and nurses to suckle and bathe and wash the children, but in no ways to prattle or speak with them; for he would have learnt whether they would speak the Hebrew language (which he took to have been the first), or Greek, or Latin, or Arabic, or perchance the tongue of their parents of whom they had been born. But he laboured in vain, for the children could not live without clappings of the hands, and gestures, and gladness of countenance, and blandishments."\[4\]
>
>A few centuries after Frederick II's alleged experiment, James IV of Scotland was said to have sent two children to be raised by a mute woman isolated on the island of Inchkeith, to determine if language was learned or innate.\[5\] The children were reported to have spoken good Hebrew, but historians were sceptical of these claims soon after they were made.\[6\]\[7\]
>
>Mughal emperor Akbar was later said to have children raised by mute wetnurses. Akbar held that speech arose from hearing; thus children raised without hearing human speech would become mute.\[8\]
>
>Some authors have doubted whether or how exactly the experiments of Psamtik I and James IV actually took place;\[9\] and probably the same goes for that of Frederick II.\[10\] Akbar's study is most likely authentic, but offers an ambiguous outcome.\[9\]

Unless you want to believe the story that some of these children spontaneously started speaking Hebrew...
panzerbjrn 1 points 5h ago
Thanks. I'd heard of one of these, but not the others...
ma-chan 1 points 3h ago
Hebrew, not Chinese?
activelyresting 1 points 1h ago
I've seen many children just spontaneously start working Hebrew!!

... While living in Israel
Vitztlampaehecatl 1 points 4h ago
This has actually happened. They developed their own language. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicaraguan_Sign_Language
CrabWoodsman 1 points 4h ago
I would venture that it depends on a lot of factors that would be hard if not impossible to control.

For one thing, what exactly are a child's needs? Naturally they need food, water, and shelter at a bare minimum, but what about social and educational stimuli? There's definitely some socializing that can be done without language, but how much?

For another, communication is more complex than just words and phrases. Body language is essentially impossible to not convey; any experiment would likely be unintentionally contaminated by whoever brought them their food. Vocalizations also aren't all language, like a baby crying; we have a born-in capacity to cry with varying intensity.

I suspect that a group of children raised without outside contact would develop a basic language and culture, but from the outside looking in it would probably look quite a bit like how ape cultures look to us.
Zer0sober 1 points 6h ago
This experiment was actually done, I can't remember by whom and I m too lazy to look it up atm, but in the end, all of the children died
Tehni 1 points 5h ago
Doesn't that generally happen regardless of if we learned a language or not
nosy-teddy 1 points 5h ago
As far as I remember one of them uttered a single-syllable word that sounded like it was from an ancient ancient mesopotanian language. They all died extremely young.
Sideshow_G 1 points 1h ago
Does that sound right.. a single syllable that sounded like a dead Language?

How many Languages do you think can be named after a single syllable?
nosy-teddy 1 points 1h ago
I don't have clue to be honest!
chainmailbill 1 points 13m ago
I’m curious what the single syllable was, because (you know) one syllable doesn’t make a language.
Seaworthiness-Any 1 points 12m ago
If there is less than a sizeable number of people, they will not develop "proper" language. Language is used to transmit information in times of need, desire (or even "wishes", however they might be distinct from desire) or distress. If their "basic needs" are met, this alone creates a paradox: they will never have to communicate about those "basic needs". Also, experimenters will tend to communicate anyway, and also every "experimental situation" will consist of what could be considered "communication". You could simply say that you cannot (ethically?) put people (be they children or not) in a sitation devoid of communication. And whatever situation you're putting these people in, you do so by communicating to them, in a sense, which will distort everything that happens.

There have been instances of "spontaneous language generation" above a certain level. All documented instances were in in front of a background where plenty of people (numbering in the hundreds or thousands) were "accidentally" deprived of the language that was spoken in the background culture. For example, there are many well-developed sign languages (used by those who are hard of hearing) all over the world. They all have in common that a number of people in need of communication, but not having (proper) access to hearing were meeting on a daily basis or even growing up together. Spontaneous "homesigns" developed to a language with complex, *recursive* signing systems.

There even were a few fringe cases, like Helen Keller, who was born blind and deaf, who was *endowed by the surrounding culture* with a specific language (written english transmitted by touch), which she was able to use until her death. Or a pair of danish twins who grew up in custody of a deaf person for some reason, wo invented and developed a language, until linguists turned up and ruined it for everybody. Owing to the circumstances, their langauge was restricted to their experience world, but most interestingly, it featured "names" for the respective other twin. For example, one twin communicated to a caretaker, "(my twin sister) (has/is using) (that wooden playhorse that we're always playing with)".

These two cases together leave room for a hypothesis like: normally, a human is born with the ability to and the desire to communicate. It will attempt to do so. If these attempts are frustrated to some extent, this will lead to a somehow detached state. Whenever a human responds to those attempts, it will gratefully be received, and sometimes this will lead to another langauge being received. Normally, this is the langauge spoke in the environment, and only in extraordinary cases, a "proper" language - a "recursive" one - can develop.

Normally, this recursion is Chomsky level 2 (context-free), but there are many cases that are "complexity on level 1" (like "irregular verbs" - we've got this verb, and for some reason it sounds different in every of our 24 combinations of time and person, and there's even a full-blown register of 24 *other* combinations) or on level 3 (or borderline level 2, like "split verbs" - german can be very curious in that regard), and these appear to make learning a language hard in a way.
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