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Advice needed: I am a Math Grad looking to get into Neuroscience (for a PhD, career change) - UK (self.neuroscience)
submitted 11y ago by tomtom_macoute
Over the past few months I've become really interested in Neuroscience. I've been staying up reading textbooks and am pretty sure this is the field I want to work in, ideally as a researcher.
Does anybody have any advice they could give me for getting onto PhD courses in the UK? I already have a Masters in Maths (first, Oxford) but nothing that relevant. I was a lazy student in some respects since I didn't find the course too stimulating, but with this it feels like any time not learning is wasted.
I also have an offer to start a Psychology masters. It is unlikely to be directly relevant, but in the absence of something better, do you think this would give me a way into the field?
Thanks!
Edit: This is my first post to reddit, thanks to those who have replied. You've been far more useful than I'd hoped.
Edit: I've been offered, and accepted a fully funded PhD placement for Computational Neuroscience in Edinburgh starting this year. Thank you to all who replied, I read all your comments and I learned something valuable from each of you.
Does anybody have any advice they could give me for getting onto PhD courses in the UK? I already have a Masters in Maths (first, Oxford) but nothing that relevant. I was a lazy student in some respects since I didn't find the course too stimulating, but with this it feels like any time not learning is wasted.
I also have an offer to start a Psychology masters. It is unlikely to be directly relevant, but in the absence of something better, do you think this would give me a way into the field?
Thanks!
Edit: This is my first post to reddit, thanks to those who have replied. You've been far more useful than I'd hoped.
Edit: I've been offered, and accepted a fully funded PhD placement for Computational Neuroscience in Edinburgh starting this year. Thank you to all who replied, I read all your comments and I learned something valuable from each of you.
vincethemighty 2 points
I can't help you too specifically about UK programs, but if you're interested in coming to the United States I know that you'll get some fantastic offers for graduate study in Neuroscience fields here. I have a close friend with a masters from Ireland in Math (and no biology experience) who is now working on computational neuroscience PhD (with full funding and healthy stipend) in California.
If you're interested in something like this, I would start with some light reading on neuroscience in general so that you can handle some interviews and applications to neuroscience programs. But, you'll have a huge leg up because Math, Physics and Computers people are in huge demand in Neuroscience because of the massive amounts of data and complicated signal processing involved in almost any neuroscience study.
Your best bet is to search out individual laboratories that have significant computational/mathematical interests and contact the PI directly. Often, they'll be quite excited to hear from someone with a math background (even more if you know a little bit of neuro) and will let you know what kind of things they're looking for.
Personally, I have a math/physics background, but got into neuroscience through a thesis project and I have to say that there are really great (and paid) opportunities in the states if you're interested in neuroscience and can understand math/program a few things.
If you're interested in something like this, I would start with some light reading on neuroscience in general so that you can handle some interviews and applications to neuroscience programs. But, you'll have a huge leg up because Math, Physics and Computers people are in huge demand in Neuroscience because of the massive amounts of data and complicated signal processing involved in almost any neuroscience study.
Your best bet is to search out individual laboratories that have significant computational/mathematical interests and contact the PI directly. Often, they'll be quite excited to hear from someone with a math background (even more if you know a little bit of neuro) and will let you know what kind of things they're looking for.
Personally, I have a math/physics background, but got into neuroscience through a thesis project and I have to say that there are really great (and paid) opportunities in the states if you're interested in neuroscience and can understand math/program a few things.
tomtom_macoute [OP] 1 points
Obligatory silly question: what is a PI?
I originally had a PhD lined up in Math in Cali (decided against more Math), I've spent a few months going around the US and my girlfriend is an American studying abroad, so the states isn't out of the question at all for me on a personal level.
Thanks for the advice. I'm glad to hear it's so open!
I originally had a PhD lined up in Math in Cali (decided against more Math), I've spent a few months going around the US and my girlfriend is an American studying abroad, so the states isn't out of the question at all for me on a personal level.
Thanks for the advice. I'm glad to hear it's so open!
[deleted] 2 points
PI stands for "primary/principal investigator". It is the person who is in charge of the lab and is typically your PhD advisor. They don't have that reference in math so the question is understandable (I work in a university math department, so I get you drift :P).
To add to the discussion, I would say that having a degree in mathematics actually opens many doors to a neuroscience PhD. I worked under a cognitive neuroscience lab in which the PI held a bachelor's in mathematics and a PhD in neuroscience. Having an undergrad and advanced degree in mathematics can open the doors to many computational and cognitive neuro labs. If you were to work in a cellular/developmental/behavioral lab ("wet lab"), that may or may not require more courses in the chemical and biological sciences.
To add to the discussion, I would say that having a degree in mathematics actually opens many doors to a neuroscience PhD. I worked under a cognitive neuroscience lab in which the PI held a bachelor's in mathematics and a PhD in neuroscience. Having an undergrad and advanced degree in mathematics can open the doors to many computational and cognitive neuro labs. If you were to work in a cellular/developmental/behavioral lab ("wet lab"), that may or may not require more courses in the chemical and biological sciences.
tomtom_macoute [OP] 1 points
Cheers mate, I'm starting to feel like I might not be so hopeless after all!
macmurdo 2 points
Not that I know anything about PhD programs in the UK (Canadian here), but with a math background have you considered a more specialized field like computational neuroscience? As an engineering graduate I too switched gears into neuroscience for a PhD (after an honors thesis project which got me interested), but found that doing modeling work was right up my alley- not to mention that it's a burgeoning field with much insight to offer about neural mechanisms (ok, maybe some bias here).
Additionally, was your masters in more hardcore math or more statistics? Not that I know exactly how the field is, but from my limited observations I think that you may find yourself doing more statistics than actual math/modeling if you pursue the Psych masters offer. Of course, I'm not sure of how much of a change you'd like, but these ideas are really just if you want to continue to use your mathematics skillz.
That said, I do think the Psych masters may help get you into the field, especially if you have any meaningful contact with professors who are cross-appointed between Psych and NSci, for some exposure to the thinking of a neuroscientist.
Additionally, was your masters in more hardcore math or more statistics? Not that I know exactly how the field is, but from my limited observations I think that you may find yourself doing more statistics than actual math/modeling if you pursue the Psych masters offer. Of course, I'm not sure of how much of a change you'd like, but these ideas are really just if you want to continue to use your mathematics skillz.
That said, I do think the Psych masters may help get you into the field, especially if you have any meaningful contact with professors who are cross-appointed between Psych and NSci, for some exposure to the thinking of a neuroscientist.
tomtom_macoute [OP] 1 points
I have considered it, the only trouble being that I am an epsilon minus semi moron with computers. This is probably more because I find using them frustrating and dull as opposed to an innate lack of ability, but the problem is still there.
I did pure math almost exclusively. The only direct application I can think of might be graph theory (the connecting of nodes through lines might be analogous to neuronal structures). I'd say I'm not looking to use my math as such, just that I'm comfortable with it and will not shy away from any math problems.
Thanks for your reply, at the very least it's good to hear the switch is possible and you've also given me a bit more confidence in the psych course.
I did pure math almost exclusively. The only direct application I can think of might be graph theory (the connecting of nodes through lines might be analogous to neuronal structures). I'd say I'm not looking to use my math as such, just that I'm comfortable with it and will not shy away from any math problems.
Thanks for your reply, at the very least it's good to hear the switch is possible and you've also given me a bit more confidence in the psych course.
19f191ty 1 points
Neuroinformatics Doctoral Training Center, Edinburgh. Amazing place, amazing people, and the course is exactly what you might expect. I did my masters in Neuroinformatics from there, let me know if you want to know anything.
CoMPLEX at UCL is also supposedly nice, but I dont have any personal experience, just hearsay.
CoMPLEX at UCL is also supposedly nice, but I dont have any personal experience, just hearsay.
tomtom_macoute [OP] 2 points
Cheers mate, I live in London and I bloody love Edinburgh (and the people).
I'll give them a read and I might well take you up on that offer. Thanks a lot!
I'll give them a read and I might well take you up on that offer. Thanks a lot!
19f191ty 1 points
Do you have a specific area in mind? Robotics, Brain Computer Interfaces, Network models, complex systems, bioinformatics, bio/neuro statistics etc...? It's a vast field with many open questions and opportunities. If you have a bias towards some specific area then it might save you a lot of exploring other fields which might not be interesting to you. I recommend checking this page, and going through the current projects. It will give you a good idea of what kind of problems computational neuroscience tries to address and which sub-field/topics you have a bias towards.
tomtom_macoute [OP] 2 points
At the mo I have no particular field in mind, so that page should help sort things out. In all honesty, although I can see how new and exciting a field it is, I've never had much joy with computers so I'm a little uneasy about diving into neuroinformatics. How advanced do your programming skills need to be (in your opinion)?
19f191ty 2 points
Programming is the simple part. Anyone can program. Most people in my course struggled with the maths. If you are comfortable with Probability, Statistics, Linear Algebra and some Signal Processing you will do well. And since you have an MSc in maths, you should not have any problems at all. For me getting a handle on the anatomy and anatomical terms was difficult, but most computational neuroscientists don't go anywhere close to that (which I find stupid!!). I would recommend it though, spending at least one lab rotation doing some lab work, cutting up mice brains, making viruses etc. It's a very useful experience.
AlienMindBender 1 points
I'm not from the UK so i can't give you advice about getting into a PhD program but i have a physics background and got a foot into the neuroscience door through a physics PhD.
Since the field is very interdisciplinary, there are various ways you can get into neuroscience research, most start from a masters/PhD level. It all depends on what aspects of neuroscience you are interested in, this will determine which program is suitable for you.
When you start in the field you will be a clean slate to your supervisor/s and will have to pick up skills and knowledge from a wide range of sources, but it will depend on which research project you start with. I myself am a grad student (4 days from thesis submission =D ) in functional neuroimaging and had to learn many aspects of biology, psychology and computer science (amongst physics of course). We collaborate with psychologists, psychiatrists, biologists as well as mathematicians and can tell you that although we all research and attack problems from different angles, we generally speak the same language.
I hope that helps!
If you have any other questions feel free to ask :)
Since the field is very interdisciplinary, there are various ways you can get into neuroscience research, most start from a masters/PhD level. It all depends on what aspects of neuroscience you are interested in, this will determine which program is suitable for you.
When you start in the field you will be a clean slate to your supervisor/s and will have to pick up skills and knowledge from a wide range of sources, but it will depend on which research project you start with. I myself am a grad student (4 days from thesis submission =D ) in functional neuroimaging and had to learn many aspects of biology, psychology and computer science (amongst physics of course). We collaborate with psychologists, psychiatrists, biologists as well as mathematicians and can tell you that although we all research and attack problems from different angles, we generally speak the same language.
I hope that helps!
If you have any other questions feel free to ask :)
dfevre 2 points
How's it going? I read this comment that you posted a while back and I wanted to ask you a couple questions about it. I would have PMed you but I figured this way you would know what I'm talking about.
I'm going into my senior year as a physics undergrad and I just recently started taking an interest in computational neuroscience. I was just wondering if you could tell me a little about your experience going from physics to neuroscience.
Which area of physics were you in? Did you finish a phd in physics before making the transition, or did you start on neuro in grad school? Would you have done anything differently if you had decided on neuroscience as an undergrad? What's been your experience finding research opportunities/funding in physics vs. neuroscience, and what are the career prospects like? Any other general thoughts or observations?
I'm sure you're busy so if you don't have time to reply to this, don't worry about it. I need to start applying to grad school very soon so I'm just trying to find out everything I can. Thanks!
I'm going into my senior year as a physics undergrad and I just recently started taking an interest in computational neuroscience. I was just wondering if you could tell me a little about your experience going from physics to neuroscience.
Which area of physics were you in? Did you finish a phd in physics before making the transition, or did you start on neuro in grad school? Would you have done anything differently if you had decided on neuroscience as an undergrad? What's been your experience finding research opportunities/funding in physics vs. neuroscience, and what are the career prospects like? Any other general thoughts or observations?
I'm sure you're busy so if you don't have time to reply to this, don't worry about it. I need to start applying to grad school very soon so I'm just trying to find out everything I can. Thanks!
AlienMindBender 1 points
Oh cool! Computational neuroscience is pretty awesome, and there is much work to do in the field! :)
So a little more about myself. I started in a physics program in undergrad, and in that time I took up summer internships and started my research career in neuroscience. My PhD supervisor is based in Physics so I did my honours year and subsequent PhD with him through the school of physics. My project is very heavy physics and math based but with applications to real data.
The transition to neuroscience from physics was pretty sweet and it involved reading a whole lot of papers (normal in any research path) and textbooks in biology and neuroscience. Having experience in physics is fairly advantageous when reading through the research and textbooks, as conduction principles make more sense and any ideas of fluid flow etc. come quite naturally.
I'm quite happy with my undergraduate training in rigorous physics, as some topics in imaging and complex network analysis of neurons are quite difficult without a good skillset in physics and in math. Unfortunately for others this might make you seem like http://xkcd.com/793/ ;) There are a few top neuroscientists who have started from a physics background mind you :)
In terms of funding and career aspects, there is far more money for research in medicine and the pool for pure physics and general physical sciences are far less than those compared with medicine.
I hope that helps! feel free to ask more me questions :)
So a little more about myself. I started in a physics program in undergrad, and in that time I took up summer internships and started my research career in neuroscience. My PhD supervisor is based in Physics so I did my honours year and subsequent PhD with him through the school of physics. My project is very heavy physics and math based but with applications to real data.
The transition to neuroscience from physics was pretty sweet and it involved reading a whole lot of papers (normal in any research path) and textbooks in biology and neuroscience. Having experience in physics is fairly advantageous when reading through the research and textbooks, as conduction principles make more sense and any ideas of fluid flow etc. come quite naturally.
I'm quite happy with my undergraduate training in rigorous physics, as some topics in imaging and complex network analysis of neurons are quite difficult without a good skillset in physics and in math. Unfortunately for others this might make you seem like http://xkcd.com/793/ ;) There are a few top neuroscientists who have started from a physics background mind you :)
In terms of funding and career aspects, there is far more money for research in medicine and the pool for pure physics and general physical sciences are far less than those compared with medicine.
I hope that helps! feel free to ask more me questions :)
tomtom_macoute [OP] 2 points
That does help! Good luck with your thesis submission.
As far as what field I'm interested in, I'm not entirely sure. I'm learning from a textbook in my spare time, so the information is nicely packaged and spoon fed to me. I think I'll need to look at some existing uni labs to see how they group themselves, then study their practices and go from there.
Thanks for the tips!
As far as what field I'm interested in, I'm not entirely sure. I'm learning from a textbook in my spare time, so the information is nicely packaged and spoon fed to me. I think I'll need to look at some existing uni labs to see how they group themselves, then study their practices and go from there.
Thanks for the tips!
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