Neuroscience: News and Discussions.
↑
0
↓
Since we can observe the process of decision making and know a decision before the person does, what if we could show them their decision before they were aware of it? (self.neuroscience)
submitted 11y ago by jeffp12
Would it create some kind of feedback loop? Would they perceive that it's reading their minds? Or would it change their thinking, stopping the decision in its tracks and so they don't think they ever made up their minds? Or would it lead to them becoming aware of the illusion of decision making and lead to breaking down some part of the ego?
Have any studies been done in this realm?
Have any studies been done in this realm?
beepbeepsean 1 points
Time wouldn't allow it. The research I've seen using fMRI found that they could predict the participants answer about 500 ms before they pushed a button to signal the answer. Researchers speculated it would take 100-150 ms for the participant to actually press the button after making the choice, leaving about a 350 ms discrepancy between the fMRI's prediction and the participants 'deciding'.
This information is only available after a good deal of computer processing the raw data obtained by the scanner.
I can probably find my sources if requested.
This information is only available after a good deal of computer processing the raw data obtained by the scanner.
I can probably find my sources if requested.
jeffp12 [OP] 1 points
>With contemporary brain scanning technology, other scientists in 2008 were able to predict with 60% accuracy whether subjects would press a button with their left or right hand up to **10 seconds** before the subject became aware of having made that choice
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroscience_of_free_will
Now, I know 60% isn't much better than 50-50, and perhaps this is erroneous and the delay is only half a second, but lets suppose that they could improve this method of detection, and develop a program to sift through the brain scan and almost instantly make a judgement, hypothetically, what would happen if a person could be confronted with their decision before they made it?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroscience_of_free_will
Now, I know 60% isn't much better than 50-50, and perhaps this is erroneous and the delay is only half a second, but lets suppose that they could improve this method of detection, and develop a program to sift through the brain scan and almost instantly make a judgement, hypothetically, what would happen if a person could be confronted with their decision before they made it?
beepbeepsean 1 points
I'm not sure but it makes me think of Neo.
[deleted] 1 points
the original article: http://www.nature.com/neuro/journal/v11/n5/abs/nn.2112.html
I was actually lucky enough to se Dan Dennet give a talk on free will today (he came to my university) and he talked about this very subject. I'd try to sum up his talk in its entirety but i'd probably fail. However i will say that he made a very interesting/somewhat compelling argument over the course of ~30 minutes of his talk that determinism and free will are not necessarily mutually exclusive (unless you believe in some sort of omniscient diety). i wish i could articulate it effectively and without making a tl;dr
but as to the question posed-if you could somehow be given that information (which you can't because as stated before the fMRI data takes a lot of massaging before those predictions become clear) then it changes the situation entirely. this new information would become part of their decision making process. it becomes an entirely different situation than the original, thus is not comparable. furthermore...just because someone isn't consciously aware that they've made a decision yet doesn't exclude the possibility that it was still made freely in their minds, it just means the decision hadn't reached the level of conscious awareness until a later time
an example of the disconnect between acting and being aware of acting: when you reflexively duck if something is thrown at you, the neurological signals that cause you to duck bypass the conscious parts of your brain, simply because it would take too long and you'd get smacked in the face. its only until after you've ducked that you become consciously aware of your behavior. (i realize a reflex isn't the best example to offer when discussing free will, just illustrating the point that consciousness is only one aspect of cognition. lots of shit is going on under the surface, it would be impractical and costly for you to be consciously aware of all of it at all times)
I was actually lucky enough to se Dan Dennet give a talk on free will today (he came to my university) and he talked about this very subject. I'd try to sum up his talk in its entirety but i'd probably fail. However i will say that he made a very interesting/somewhat compelling argument over the course of ~30 minutes of his talk that determinism and free will are not necessarily mutually exclusive (unless you believe in some sort of omniscient diety). i wish i could articulate it effectively and without making a tl;dr
but as to the question posed-if you could somehow be given that information (which you can't because as stated before the fMRI data takes a lot of massaging before those predictions become clear) then it changes the situation entirely. this new information would become part of their decision making process. it becomes an entirely different situation than the original, thus is not comparable. furthermore...just because someone isn't consciously aware that they've made a decision yet doesn't exclude the possibility that it was still made freely in their minds, it just means the decision hadn't reached the level of conscious awareness until a later time
an example of the disconnect between acting and being aware of acting: when you reflexively duck if something is thrown at you, the neurological signals that cause you to duck bypass the conscious parts of your brain, simply because it would take too long and you'd get smacked in the face. its only until after you've ducked that you become consciously aware of your behavior. (i realize a reflex isn't the best example to offer when discussing free will, just illustrating the point that consciousness is only one aspect of cognition. lots of shit is going on under the surface, it would be impractical and costly for you to be consciously aware of all of it at all times)
[deleted] 0 points
How do you let someone know that their opinion of what you should want, that they're trying to force on you, only confirms your idea that it's wrong?
This nonprofit website is run by volunteers.
Please contribute if you can. Thank you!
Our mission is to provide everyone with access to large-
scale community websites for the good of humanity.
Without ads, without tracking, without greed.
scale community websites for the good of humanity.
Without ads, without tracking, without greed.
©2023 HumbleCat Inc • HumbleCat is a 501(c)3 nonprofit based in Michigan, USA.