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First victim killed by Philadelphia mass shooting suspect Kimbrady Carriker 44 hours before shooting spree, officials say (nbcnewyork.com)
submitted 1d ago by postonrddt
Ok-Brush5346 1257 points 23h ago
Did I have a stroke while reading the headline?
sifterandrake 613 points 21h ago
The gunman killed someone nearly 2 days before the mass shooting. Two different events.
Temporary_Inner 270 points 18h ago
Here's my attempt to fix it, I only added one word and kept the buzzwords being forced to the beginning.

*First victim of Philadelphia mass shooting suspect, K. Carriker, slain 44 hours prior to shooting spree claim officials.*
Derpwarrior1000 68 points 18h ago
Only fix is that almost all news style guides have the noun before the verb in attributions. While sometimes it seems irrelevant, in general it increases clarity. So it would be “[…], officials claim”.

When you’re speaking, almost no one would use “claim officials.” You might however say, “the officials are claiming” which would be shortened to “officials claim”.
ContextSwitchKiller 9 points 17h ago
Are there standardized news style guides online that everyone tries to follow or ~~it~~ is it mainly internal stuff that is grown and developed from within?
Scarlett_Billows 34 points 17h ago
There’s a standardized AP style. Most news sources use a version of that, along with, like you said, differences that are decided internally according the the culture of the newspaper.
gorgewall 10 points 14h ago
Not only do various organizations have internal standards, but there's broader standards for whole fields that most try to adhere to, and the public used to pick up on these by simply reading the newspaper a lot or **being explicitly taught about them in school**.

So much of the current problem people have reading headlines is they're just bad at parsing "headlinese". If I had a dollar for every chucklefuck getting upset about a headline that is actually 100% truthful but simply doesn't carry every detail in the story--THOSE THINGS YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO READ THE ARTICLE FOR--then I could fire them into the sun. No, motherfuckers, it isn't a "misleading headline", you're just running off half-cocked and getting angry at something you made up in your head! No one lead you anywhere, you just started *going*.

But we stopped teaching this stuff and people stopped reading newspapers, so even though there hasn't been much of a change with how headlines are written (they're just as "clickbaity" now as they were in my era), folks whose only interaction with news is their social media headline feed are convinced something is going on. Yeah, dudes, the media's manipulating you, but there's totally no other folks looking to manipulate your rabid distrust of all media, don't worry.
DonOblivious 3 points 6h ago
> Are there standardized news style guides online that everyone tries to follow or it is it mainly internal stuff that is grown and developed from within?

It's both. They're called "Style Guides." Sometimes they're "internal" like the *Associated Press Stylebook* but get adopted by outside companies and sometimes they're more generalized like the *Chicago Manual of Style* or *MLA Style Guide*. Sometimes specific topics/industries have a style guide they prefer, like the American Phycological Association. (APA style)

Real world example: Magic The Gathering uses "Chicago Style" and prior to 2016(iirc) cards **had** to say "his or her" in the rules text according to the style guide. Post 2017'ish they switched to the much less clunky singular-"they" because the *Chicago Manual of Style* started allowing singular-they.

"Roses are red,
Violets are blue.
Singular they is older
Than singular you."
Miguel-odon 3 points 14h ago
Says you
Temporary_Inner 0 points 15h ago
Yeah you're right.
Crizbibble 40 points 17h ago
People need to move back to Reuters and AP. They are becoming the only reliable way to get news. The news media is a complete failure. News services are so much better it pales in comparison.
fuck_the_fuckin_mods 5 points 15h ago
That has always been the case, but reputable national broadcasters are great as well. BBC is still one of the most trustworthy sources for hard news around. If they say it, it’s almost certainly verified. PBS/NPR too to a lesser extent (political pollution through their funding). CBC. ABC. But ya, if we could get Americans looking towards wire services for their information SO MANY of our problems would be ameliorated. This alternative reality bullshit is horrifying.
Crizbibble 0 points 14h ago
My only issue with national broadcasters (PBS, BBC, CBC, etc.) which I still do watch at least once a week is they may become politicized and the change in information would be a slow frog boil instead of splashing acid in your face. I saw it a bit with PBS during and after tRump and it worried me. BBC has had episodes also of them changing the news or not reporting certain things but I agree that they are much better than current mainstream infotainment media.
fuck_the_fuckin_mods 2 points 10h ago
Absolutely. I’m kind of surprised I forgot my usual disclaimer… Do not follow internal news of a country on its national broadcaster. It’s *impossible* to be completely unbiased about shit you’re personally involved in, so look for fresh eyes and an outside perspective. When shit’s going down it the US I look to BBC and CBC, for example. Of course the real way to do things is to check all the wire services and not-for-profit broadcasters, and look at what they’ve all independently verified (or haven’t). It’s not The Truth but it’s close enough that you won’t be caught off guard by what’s happening in the world.
Dunstund_CHeks_IN 34 points 18h ago
Awful headline.
Dunstund_CHeks_IN 23 points 18h ago
“Kimbrady Carriker killed his first victim 44 hours before the Philadelphia mass shooting, officials say.”
Temporary_Inner 3 points 15h ago
It's better, but I think leadings with victim is part of an an algorithm.
ilovefacebook 1 points 8h ago
put parentheses around the Kimberly name
2doublesanda20piece -34 points 19h ago
Apparently, since there was nothing difficult about reading that headline
Ok-Brush5346 14 points 18h ago
Reading the article shouldn't be a prerequisite to understanding a headline. It's at least awkward and unclear until you've read the entire sentence, which is generally not what you want in a headline. Also, I am referring to the posted headline, not the actual headline on the article, which is much clearer.
jacksonpsternin 8 points 17h ago
>awkward and unclear until you read the entire sentence

Yeah man, maybe it’s just me, but most written sentences don’t make sense until I read the sentence.
Ok-Brush5346 2 points 17h ago
The sentence intially reads like it will be about the first victim, when it is really about the killing itself.
2doublesanda20piece -10 points 18h ago
I didn't read the article. The posted headline made perfect sense.
mrjosemeehan 1 points 1h ago
Possibly. Seems clear enough to me.
beattrapkit 249 points 21h ago
Wait I can't remember which mass shooting this is.
VegasKL 105 points 20h ago
We almost need to add it to the weather report at this point.

"Tensions are running a little high on the 4-chan sectors of Milwaukee today, so be on the lookout for incels carrying rifles, as there's a 1% chance of bullets."
plipyplop 5 points 15h ago
Hard to do a relaxing weekend. A kevlar-umbrella would help keep accouterments to a minimum when out for a picnic and planning for the unforeseen.
llOlOOlOO 16 points 18h ago
It was the one performed by the well-regulated militia member
[deleted] -8 points 11h ago
[removed]
QuestoPresto 2 points 6h ago
Nope try again
sQueezedhe 1 points 20h ago
There's always a mass shooting, it's a schrodinger thing.
traveler1967 1 points 17h ago
The one before the next one!
IMPORTANT_INFO 0 points 6h ago
we need to start naming them like hurricanes
okwellactually 1 points 54m ago
Here's your definitive list.

There were **6** on the 15th and **3** on the 16th.
Photonica 429 points 23h ago
Stop. Using. Their. Fucking. Names.
Key-Owl-5177 70 points 19h ago
Or union strikes, or environmental disasters. They know what they're doing.
GroatExpectorations 18 points 17h ago
Environmental disasters are a media contagion? The forests in California hear about what the Canadian forests are doing and decide to catch fire?
that_70_show_fan 24 points 16h ago
Majority of forest fires involve humans. Some like to literally watch the world burn.

https://www.nifc.gov/fire-information/statistics/human-caused

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/study-shows-84-wildfires-caused-humans-180962315/
OnyxtheRecluse 1 points 2h ago
Ah yes, because union strikes aren't happening for some other reason like workers not being paid livable wages.
mostly_hrmless 2 points 13h ago
The mass shooter *media contagion* is based on really old data, back when mass shootings were actually rare. It needs further study to be meaningful.
LukeMayeshothand -10 points 18h ago
Yeah but then we can’t get rid of the 2nd Amendment.
reddituser1580 2 points 9h ago
For real. And the victim is only named “victim”. They have it backwards
Froklhul 4 points 16h ago
Honestly! So many times, people just wanted their name/story spread because they felt pushed away by society, yet the press always puts their names and pictures and often even links to their personal stuff like manifestos and social media pages. It’s like they’re promoting them, it’s insane.
[deleted] -33 points 22h ago
[removed]
Auburn_X 8 points 20h ago
More than I ought to and more than they deserve. To these people this list is like a pantheon that the next one can be a part of.
scwuffypuppy 49 points 22h ago
At least five of those lol. But I’m also not planning any mass shootings.
2nd-Hand-Butt-Plug -16 points 21h ago
I know 3 of them, the rest I had to Google and I still don't know who they are. (at least by name).
YomiKuzuki 14 points 19h ago
That's part of the issue. People who are planning mass shootings to become famous, they see those names when they google mass shootings. They think that their names will live forever. That's why it's important to not list those names.

Whether you recognize them or not, people can still find them. People can still look at those names and think "Everyone will remember them forever. I want that".
early_onset_villainy 4 points 18h ago
Using their names gives admirers someone to research and idolise. Keep them anonymous.
2nd-Hand-Butt-Plug -1 points 16h ago
And unless we're living in 'Oceania' and it's 1984, and unless there's 100% compliance by the media self censoring themselves, those names and details will still be available to anyone (admirer or not), that wants to do the research.

It's not like their names or deeds will be erased from the record.

Censorship for any reason be it mandated or voluntary is never a good thing. The pubic deserves the right to know the names of the perpetrators of wanton acts of violence.

That kind of information shouldn't be denied because it might inspire a few bad actors to follow their destiny.
early_onset_villainy 1 points 6h ago
Not using their names isn’t censorship. That’s just a buzzword. Not using their names should be the law - these people should not be given any attention or notoriety and others who want to follow in their footsteps should not be given idols for inspiration. It’s the same reason the US didn’t bury Bin Laden.
Blenderx06 7 points 21h ago
I only knew Lanza, Harris and Klebold. Have trained myself to skim past murderer's names like I do ads.
willowmarie27 7 points 20h ago
Knew the same. I think only Lanza because his photo seemed to be everywhere for awhile because he looked so insane.
blue_alien_police 5 points 21h ago
I know 6, but only because they took so many lives. Seung-Hui Cho was VT, Lanza was Sandy Hook, Paddock was Vegas, Harris and Klebold were Columbine, and I think Mateen was nightclub shooting in Florida (not sure of the name, was it Pulse?).
TronCat1277 1 points 22h ago
Look at all those female names! Maybe we should arm all the ladies so they can stop the bad guys
No_Yogurt_7667 15 points 21h ago
There were over 600 mass shootings in 2022 and not a single one was perpetrated by a woman.
bros402 2 points 20h ago
Mateen, Cho, Lanza, Paddock, Harris, and Klebold.


I want to say Mateen was Pulse. Cho was 10000% Virginia Tech. Lanza was Newtown, Paddock was Vegas, Harris & Klebold were Columbine.


If you had said Farook and Malik by themselves, I wouldn't have known - but since they are listed together I am pretttty sure that they were San Bernardino?
pomonamike 1 points 20h ago
Charles Whitman? Great song!
naarwhal -17 points 23h ago
Why? This story isn’t gonna hit breaking national news lol
CountyBeginning6510 -20 points 23h ago
Registered republican with ghost guns shoots lots of people isn't the headline people want.
naarwhal 6 points 18h ago
Yikes bro
CountyBeginning6510 0 points 17h ago
I know people hate facts.
postonrddt [OP] -67 points 23h ago
Yes and no. Their names must be associated with what they are: Cowardly pos killers and not a video game character.

When 'shooter' is the only thing referencing the killers or suspects it puts a lure or air of mystery around them. They are in clear cut terms cold blooded cowards who killed unarmed people.
Ok-Brush5346 37 points 23h ago
People want the names and motives so they can go "Ha! I knew one of *those* people would do this!" But, like, who is that helping?
DrTautology -16 points 20h ago
>video game character.


Wtf does this even mean and why do you keep saying it?
DrTautology -12 points 20h ago
Oh, I see now. You're a moron. As you were then.
flypapertastetest 1 points 6h ago
Keep giving these fucking psychos attention and keep wondering why they do it.
bilbo_swagginz_boi 1 points 15m ago
Probably won’t happen. More money for parent company and there are probably outlets who would refuse to censor the name
Competitive_Fee_5829 18 points 16h ago
I had to read this title multiple time before it made sense. and I am 100% sober, lol.
PhiladelphiaManeto 35 points 19h ago
It’s amazing that this made national headlines, because we have a mass shooting here basically every weekend.

Sports events, at school, holiday weekends, concerts, just about everything gets lit up with bullets here.
cptkomondor 9 points 9h ago
There's a big difference between gang disputes "mass shootings" which often happen and terrorists/mentally ill people shooting random people mass shootings which AR eless common.
PhiladelphiaManeto 0 points 3h ago
What is the difference? And why does it matter?
cptkomondor 4 points 3h ago
In one case, you can generally avoid the violence by not getting involved in gangs or going into gang infested areas.

The other one is much more terrifying because of its randomness - it can happen to anyone no matter what they do or where they are.
PhiladelphiaManeto 1 points 3h ago
I don’t think you quite understand.

Innocent bystanders are shot in cities every day due to indiscriminate mass shootings.

Yes this one was motivated by mental illness, but the rest are not “gangs”, many of them are just instagram disputes or something equally as stupid that end up with bullets flying
mandatory6 2 points 10h ago
Never ending 4th of July
vivixnforever 1 points 15h ago
It made national headlines cuz conservatives saw a photo of him crossdressing and immediately grabbed onto the chance to frame his crimes as a result of him being trans. Which the police, the DA, and basically everyone in his life, including him, says he’s not.
SpursExpanse 6 points 16h ago
I’m getting too old to understand interwebism
etlecomtedeblaine 5 points 11h ago
This headline made no sense to me
postonrddt [OP] 17 points 11h ago
The killer murdered some one almost 2 days prior in same area. Police were called for gunshots in area but never found the source.

It also indicates the day he went on his spree was not the first time he killed which seems to be the case with many of these mass killing sprees. He wasn't in a gang nor were they revenge killings. He got a taste and wanted more.
etlecomtedeblaine 6 points 11h ago
Yikes, that's horrifying. Hopefully he stays in prison forever.
RevB1983 1 points 5h ago
The 2nd Amendment demands its blood sacrifice and says nothing of age or location.
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