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What's up with the reddit protest over 3rd party apps and what does John Oliver have to do with it? (self.OutOfTheLoop)
submitted 1m ago by OOTLMods
# Why the protests are happening
On May 31st, 2023 reddit announced that they were moving from a free model for access to their API to a quite significant price increase starting on July 1st of this year. The result was that many third-party apps will close down (most notably RiF for Android and Apollo for iOS. In addition, many blind people rely on third-party apps to be able to access reddit content. The accessibility features of reddit don't seem to be quite there, yet. ~~Reddit has claimed that the API change will not impact people with accessibility issues, but hasn't been very concrete about what they are actually going to do.~~ Reddit has granted a non-commercial app focused on accessibility features an exemptions from the new API costs.
**More information can be found on the protest subreddit.**
# What happened so far
In a first attempt at getting reddit to change their tune and at least allow a grace period for third-party apps to update their apps so they can manage the increased costs, many subreddits went dark.
Reddit was not too worried, since the protest was only supposed to go on for two days.
Since reddit didn't address the concerns of the moderators to their satisfaction, several subreddits continued their blackout. This has resulted in reddit messaging mod teams to tell them that mods will be removed and new mods will be instated, if subreddits remain closed.
In response, subreddits are opening back up. But the new move seems to be malicious compliance like r/pics only allowing sexy pictures of John Oliver which technically makes r/pics compliant with the demands from the admins.
Admins are doubling down: After some subreddits have been forcibly opened their mods decided to turn their subreddits to NSFW to curb reddit's ad revenue. Admins are now removing entire mod teams and have even suspended some mods.
On r/PoliticalHumor every users can now lock/unlock posts, temporarily ban other users and remove posts.
~~Posts about Steve Huffman seem to be being removed by the admins.~~ This has not been sufficiently proven.
# More on the topic on r/OutOfTheLoop
* What's going on with 3rd party Reddit apps after the Reddit blackout?
* What's the deal with photos of John Oliver all over Reddit today?
* What is up with the possible bad actors /r/gifs is referencing about the blackout?
* What’s going on with r/nba and r/nbacirclejerk?
* What’s going on with these literal takes of subreddits?
* What's going on with u/awkwardtheturtle?
On May 31st, 2023 reddit announced that they were moving from a free model for access to their API to a quite significant price increase starting on July 1st of this year. The result was that many third-party apps will close down (most notably RiF for Android and Apollo for iOS. In addition, many blind people rely on third-party apps to be able to access reddit content. The accessibility features of reddit don't seem to be quite there, yet. ~~Reddit has claimed that the API change will not impact people with accessibility issues, but hasn't been very concrete about what they are actually going to do.~~ Reddit has granted a non-commercial app focused on accessibility features an exemptions from the new API costs.
**More information can be found on the protest subreddit.**
# What happened so far
In a first attempt at getting reddit to change their tune and at least allow a grace period for third-party apps to update their apps so they can manage the increased costs, many subreddits went dark.
Reddit was not too worried, since the protest was only supposed to go on for two days.
Since reddit didn't address the concerns of the moderators to their satisfaction, several subreddits continued their blackout. This has resulted in reddit messaging mod teams to tell them that mods will be removed and new mods will be instated, if subreddits remain closed.
In response, subreddits are opening back up. But the new move seems to be malicious compliance like r/pics only allowing sexy pictures of John Oliver which technically makes r/pics compliant with the demands from the admins.
Admins are doubling down: After some subreddits have been forcibly opened their mods decided to turn their subreddits to NSFW to curb reddit's ad revenue. Admins are now removing entire mod teams and have even suspended some mods.
On r/PoliticalHumor every users can now lock/unlock posts, temporarily ban other users and remove posts.
~~Posts about Steve Huffman seem to be being removed by the admins.~~ This has not been sufficiently proven.
# More on the topic on r/OutOfTheLoop
* What's going on with 3rd party Reddit apps after the Reddit blackout?
* What's the deal with photos of John Oliver all over Reddit today?
* What is up with the possible bad actors /r/gifs is referencing about the blackout?
* What’s going on with r/nba and r/nbacirclejerk?
* What’s going on with these literal takes of subreddits?
* What's going on with u/awkwardtheturtle?
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[deleted] 130 points 29d ago
EDIT: This formerly helpful and insightful comment has been removed by the author due to:
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Greedy and power-hungry motives demonstrated by the upper management of this website, in gross disregard of the collaborative and volunteer efforts by the users and communities that developed here, which previously resulted in such excellent information sharing.
Alternative platforms that may be worth investigating include, at the time of writing:
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Not wanting to be used as training for AI models, nor having unknown third parties profit from the author's intellectual property.
Greedy and power-hungry motives demonstrated by the upper management of this website, in gross disregard of the collaborative and volunteer efforts by the users and communities that developed here, which previously resulted in such excellent information sharing.
Alternative platforms that may be worth investigating include, at the time of writing:
https://kbin.fediverse.observer/list
https://join-lemmy.org/
https://squabbles.io/
https://tildes.net/
Also helpful for finding your favourite communities again: https://sub.rehab/
Bobert9333 64 points 29d ago
This is the question I keep looking for an answer to, and nobody seems to have one. How did JO become the poster boy for the movement??
Kimmycals 34 points 29d ago
They did a poll on being private indefinitely or to have all their post involving JO. I think it was like 1k votes on stay private and 9k-11k (i forgot the exact number) to have all their post involve JO
Edit: I’m referring to the gifs subreddit though, not sure it the other subreddits did a vote as well
Edit: I’m referring to the gifs subreddit though, not sure it the other subreddits did a vote as well
Bobert9333 26 points 29d ago
I got that part. But to quote u/sovietcombatant, why JO? Why Robin Williams, Rihanna, Trevor Noah, etc? How did every sub settle on John Oliver?
Kimmycals 19 points 29d ago
From my understanding, it started off as a meme and is an attempt to gain traction. I think it was also a way to get JO’s attention (which they did get a tweet from, although I’m unsure with what they are hoping to achieve)
Jay_mi 58 points 29d ago
My best guess is that some are hoping Oliver does an episode of Last Week Tonight about the API changes, while most are just hopping on board for the memes.
cjb3535123 21 points 28d ago
Jesus, the api change sucks but is hardly worth the attention on the typical types of injustices John Oliver covers.
Alltheedits 14 points 27d ago
Also, Oliver’s show is off due to the Writer’s Strike.
SunShineState12 2 points 26d ago
Didn’t the writers strike sign an agreement?
RFC793 5 points 27d ago
I mean, it wouldn’t be his main story, but he does cover some silly less serious stuff in the shorter segments.
Dyne4R 15 points 28d ago
Because this type of "protest by adhering to the letter of the law" is exactly the type of shit John Oliver has grown famous for ever since he started his show on HBO. Those bits are popular, and these actions directly call to mind that sort of action. It draws attention to the issue in a big way, while highlighting the inherent problems with Spez's position.
stavis23 17 points 29d ago
because he's super ridiculously good looking
I_Am_A_Real_Hacker 17 points 29d ago
Because he’s cute
ETA: At least in otter form
ETA: At least in otter form
Sarrasri 3 points 28d ago
Like a marginally attractive weasel.
akcrono 10 points 29d ago
Estimated Time of Arrival?
[deleted] 7 points 29d ago
[deleted]
akcrono 5 points 29d ago
Why not just "EDIT"?
Nukemarine 39 points 28d ago
Answer: To add to the other steps of the malicious compliance, a number of subs have now switched their settings to "NSFW" which reduces access to logged in accounts that are 18+ on top of not being visible on r/popular and reduced ad revenue. Some have gone further to not moderate submissions outside of reddit's overall rules.
Prediterx 9 points 25d ago
R/interestingasfuck has done exactly that.
Love me some maliciouscompliance
Love me some maliciouscompliance
awkwardftm 4 points 22d ago
How does the “malicious compliance” element work for subs like r/memes only allowing medieval memes? How does restricting the theme of the sub affect ad revenue or the admins?
Nukemarine 5 points 22d ago
In that case, not much in the near term. In the long term, people get bored with that and move to other subs or sites.
awkwardftm 4 points 22d ago
If the goal is to get people to stop using the subs or the site, why not just close the sub?
Nukemarine 9 points 22d ago
Reddit admins showed their hand that they'll force the sub open by removing the mods and replacing them with mods that claim they'll keep it open.
Nickel62 105 points 1m ago
Doesn't answer the 'John Oliver' bit.
Werner__Herzog 9 points 1m ago
There's a link to the post about it... there are several links. But I understand, I've explained it in the post now.
Safe2BeFree 80 points 1m ago
Answer: This sub didn't participate in the blackout. Is spez being a mod for this sub a reason for that? How active is he as a mod on this sub?
[deleted] 76 points 29d ago
[deleted]
IranianGenius 64 points 29d ago
Pretty sure he was invited as a meme during/after the Ellen Pao drama, but I don't remember. Similar reasoning as to why Snoop Dogg moderates /r/art.
Another mod with better memory can correct me if I'm wrong.
Another mod with better memory can correct me if I'm wrong.
ErectPerfect 65 points 29d ago
If he was added as a meme, wouldn't it be more relevant to... remove him? Especially considering he doesn't actually mod?
IranianGenius 31 points 29d ago
Yes, I agree.
Werner__Herzog 22 points 29d ago
I can confirm that we did it for the memes. We used to invite pretty much every admin and former admin. Some joined some didn't. Some even used to participate in moderating... but that was years ago.
antiauthoritarian123 4 points 29d ago
Ellen Pao, imagine a website that would fire you for banning subreddits in 2022-2023 lol
Static077 6 points 29d ago
By the new moderation logic he shouldn't be
Werner__Herzog 19 points 29d ago
> This sub didn't participate in the blackout.
We set the subreddit to restricted mode during those two days. It was a compromise between us wanting to still inform people and showing our (and mostly the user's) solidarity for the protests.
We set the subreddit to restricted mode during those two days. It was a compromise between us wanting to still inform people and showing our (and mostly the user's) solidarity for the protests.
Safe2BeFree -9 points 28d ago
Yeah, you did the bare minimum while still saying you participated. No one will believe you guys actually cared as long as spez, the person who caused the entire thing, is on your mod team.
icookseagulls 3 points 28d ago
Hopefully not too active. He once ninja-edited other users comments without their knowledge.
B_U_F_U -16 points 29d ago
Delete this comment. This isn’t an answer.
Werner__Herzog 4 points 29d ago
Comments in meganthreads don't need to be answers
Safe2BeFree 2 points 29d ago
Was the post a question?
GaZzErZz 7 points 28d ago
Was /r/toyota nuked?
It's now private but was allowing anything to be posted there in protest. Sub is now locked and afaik my own post deleted, maybe more to tidy up?
It's now private but was allowing anything to be posted there in protest. Sub is now locked and afaik my own post deleted, maybe more to tidy up?
Napakii 5 points 26d ago
who is john oliver?
CoffeeInThatNebula87 11 points 21d ago
He is a British-born American comedian who has his own show on HBO, called Last Week Tonight (parts of it are available on youtube).
His show is currently on strike as well, in support of their writers.
I'm a bit out of the loop, but I reckon that might be why they use his pics as malicious compliance?
Anyway I'd urge everyone to check out his show, the episodes are so well done, the writers are awesome and since it's on HBO they get away with a lot of stuff (they even picked on a wealthy dude who loves to use his fortune for SLAP suits for example).
His show is currently on strike as well, in support of their writers.
I'm a bit out of the loop, but I reckon that might be why they use his pics as malicious compliance?
Anyway I'd urge everyone to check out his show, the episodes are so well done, the writers are awesome and since it's on HBO they get away with a lot of stuff (they even picked on a wealthy dude who loves to use his fortune for SLAP suits for example).
VulcanForceChoke 4 points 15d ago
I still can’t get over how he wrapped up the SLAPP Suit episode with a four-five minute musical number telling Bob Murray to fuck off
[deleted] 1 points 25d ago
[removed]
Werner__Herzog 5 points 24d ago
please try to be helpful, bruv.
RobbKyro 4 points 24d ago
I'm so sorry I forgot where I was. Apologies
canonlypray 7 points 24d ago
All these mod teams should be wiped clean. Holding thousands of posts of useful information and even commerce hostage. No mercy
Electric999999 5 points 17d ago
Screw that, Reddit should just give users what they want instead of ruining everything in pursuit of more money. It'd serve them right if the site died.
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Much_Independent7640 2 points 26d ago
👌 Great post! Really informative and helpful for those of us who have been out of the loop on this topic. Thanks for sharing! 🙏
Iron_Wolf123 2 points 15d ago
It is July 2nd AEST, why hasn't Reddit complained about the API changes?
alien_from_Europa 2 points 11d ago
There's been a major update about the /r/pics feud: https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/14rn8zd/the_rpics_moderators_cant_respond_to_reddit
omglia 4 points 25d ago
Also, who tf is john oliver
mycommentsaccount 4 points 23d ago
answer: he's a cable tv host/comedian of an HBO show called Last Night with John Oliver. He's well-regarded in the liberal community as someone whose news program does thorough investigation of their news pieces while poking fun along the way.
3932695 5 points 28d ago
Question: Not sure if this is the best place to ask - but here's my two questions.
I looked at this post regarding the API pricing:
https://www.reddit.com/r/reddit/comments/145bram/addressing_the_community_about_changes_to_our_api/
Asking about this excerpt regarding the "free" pricing tier:
> 100 queries per minute per OAuth client id if you are using OAuth authentication and 10 queries per minute if you are not using OAuth authentication.
> Today, over 90% of apps fall into this category and can continue to access the Data API for free.
This seems quite reasonable at a glance, but I don't know much about the app landscape here - is 100 queries per minute actually not enough?
I can see that a complete reddit app substitute like Apollo would go way over, and that the reddit response to Apollo has been quite unprofessional ...so is the outrage mostly over Apollo?
I looked at this post regarding the API pricing:
https://www.reddit.com/r/reddit/comments/145bram/addressing_the_community_about_changes_to_our_api/
Asking about this excerpt regarding the "free" pricing tier:
> 100 queries per minute per OAuth client id if you are using OAuth authentication and 10 queries per minute if you are not using OAuth authentication.
> Today, over 90% of apps fall into this category and can continue to access the Data API for free.
This seems quite reasonable at a glance, but I don't know much about the app landscape here - is 100 queries per minute actually not enough?
I can see that a complete reddit app substitute like Apollo would go way over, and that the reddit response to Apollo has been quite unprofessional ...so is the outrage mostly over Apollo?
somnolent49 15 points 27d ago
Also, the statement that "90% of apps fall below this limit". Not all apps are equally popular, and the more popular apps are the ones penalized here.
To use a (slightly bizarre) analogy, imagine people commute to work using 10 kinds of vehicle - (Car, Bicycle, Unicycle, Scooter, etc). If I say I'm banning people from using cars, I can tell them that "90% of transportation options are unaffected"
. Technically speaking, I'm not lying, but what I'm omitting is that 95% of travel is taking place in cars today and will be affected by the change.
To use a (slightly bizarre) analogy, imagine people commute to work using 10 kinds of vehicle - (Car, Bicycle, Unicycle, Scooter, etc). If I say I'm banning people from using cars, I can tell them that "90% of transportation options are unaffected"
. Technically speaking, I'm not lying, but what I'm omitting is that 95% of travel is taking place in cars today and will be affected by the change.
Afford 9 points 27d ago
Yeah it's language like this that really lowers my opinion of Reddit admins on how they are handling this situation. While it's technically true, they are purposely saying these numbers to dishonestly push their agenda. I would actually much prefer that they honestly just say we need to make these changes to make more profit rather than try to trick people that these changes are helping all users. I also wouldn't be surprised if 90% of apps includes apps that were last used 10 years ago.
3shotsofwhatever 5 points 28d ago
It's about a ton of apps. Apollo got the most headlines due to their founder being the most vocal in the challenge and that app having a large amount of users. Reddit Is Fun is another app that will face the same situation. For me RIF is the only way I use reddit and has been for 8 years. If it goes away, so do I.
somnolent49 10 points 27d ago
It used to be priced per user. Now it's priced per clientID.
It's like going from 60 requests per minute for each person on your website, to 100 requests per minute allocated to all users of Firefox combined.
If you had 1000 users who made 5 requests per minute before, your app was using ~9% of the old limit (5/60). After the change, you would be using 5000% of the new limit (5000/100).
Also, under the old policy if one user suddenly started to use more than the limit, only that user would get throttled. Now a single user who sends a lot of requests will cause the limit to be exceeded, throttling all the other 999 users of the app.
It's like going from 60 requests per minute for each person on your website, to 100 requests per minute allocated to all users of Firefox combined.
If you had 1000 users who made 5 requests per minute before, your app was using ~9% of the old limit (5/60). After the change, you would be using 5000% of the new limit (5000/100).
Also, under the old policy if one user suddenly started to use more than the limit, only that user would get throttled. Now a single user who sends a lot of requests will cause the limit to be exceeded, throttling all the other 999 users of the app.
3932695 7 points 27d ago
Ahh ouch I see, so probably only folks making apps for personal use are spared.
How feasible is it to give every user a clientID?
How feasible is it to give every user a clientID?
somnolent49 7 points 27d ago
A similar question was asked about each user having their own API key - allegedly Reddit has said this is explicitly not allowed, according to this post:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Infinity_For_Reddit/comments/14c7v84/comment/jokqfe4/?context=1
https://www.reddit.com/r/Infinity_For_Reddit/comments/14c7v84/comment/jokqfe4/?context=1
LeftToaster 2 points 24d ago
Pardon my ignorance, I am trying to understand what is going on. I do not access Reddit via a third party app, so I am not so familiar with them.
Do Apollo and Reddit Is Fun and other third party apps block ads? It sounds like Reddit - which owns the platform that provides access to roughly 400m active users every month - is trying to either block API access to apps or essentially replace the lost ad revenue with API access fees.
Are my assumptions correct? I don't get the protest.
Do Apollo and Reddit Is Fun and other third party apps block ads? It sounds like Reddit - which owns the platform that provides access to roughly 400m active users every month - is trying to either block API access to apps or essentially replace the lost ad revenue with API access fees.
Are my assumptions correct? I don't get the protest.
3932695 5 points 24d ago
Reddit is not providing a way for these apps to serve ads.
The switch to paying per ClientId instead of per UserId also means that popular apps will be charged exorbitant fees for API access.
The only workaround I can see is throttling your app’s queries to under 100 queries per minute, which isn’t going to scale up for popular apps.
The switch to paying per ClientId instead of per UserId also means that popular apps will be charged exorbitant fees for API access.
The only workaround I can see is throttling your app’s queries to under 100 queries per minute, which isn’t going to scale up for popular apps.
LeftToaster 3 points 24d ago
So it sounds like they don't really want 3rd party apps, but still have an API?
I guess a better way to handle it would be:
1. Provide API methods to ensure 3rd party apps serve ads.
2. Make the Reddit mobile app so much better than 3rd party apps that there is no reason to use them.
3. Add new features that are not accessible via API.
I guess a better way to handle it would be:
1. Provide API methods to ensure 3rd party apps serve ads.
2. Make the Reddit mobile app so much better than 3rd party apps that there is no reason to use them.
3. Add new features that are not accessible via API.
LeftToaster 1 points 23d ago
Even if Reddit (out of pure benevolence) undertook the massive effort to rewrite their API to allow/require third party apps to serve ads - how would they track clicks, impressions and views on a platform they don't control?
Is it really exorbitant given the value of the data?
What about AI that would basically just consume and synthesize the content without serving it to end users?
Is it really exorbitant given the value of the data?
What about AI that would basically just consume and synthesize the content without serving it to end users?
mysoulishome 2 points 26d ago
Please continue to protest in some way be it certain days, no moderation, content guidelines, full blackout...I am leaving all subs that are not protesting in some way.
Valash83 -7 points 29d ago
Answer: Average users who use Reddit don't care. Mods and people who spend waaaaay too much time online are trying to bully a private business from making changes to their product instead of just not using said product like most sane and rational people.
Don't like the changes a private business is making, stop using their product. But that would require common sense.
Don't like the changes a private business is making, stop using their product. But that would require common sense.
Jsahl 17 points 28d ago
oh nooooooooo won't someone please think of the private giant tech company?? it's really unfair that the profits of corporations are so often ignored by our society!
Designer-Squash-337 1 points 29d ago
Reddit moderator moment.
How2Howto 1 points 11d ago
Those people who sit in a tree until whatever government body cooperates to not cut down the tree are a better fit for this protest.
John Oliver and his show DGAF. They make every topic the cover from week to week the "most important thing you're not paying attention to" but never follow up. It's like an influencer "bringing awareness" He has more in common with Harry & Meghan than he does with wanting any real change.
John Oliver and his show DGAF. They make every topic the cover from week to week the "most important thing you're not paying attention to" but never follow up. It's like an influencer "bringing awareness" He has more in common with Harry & Meghan than he does with wanting any real change.
Estelmayer 1 points 1d ago
And what does JO have to do with it??
TheFarage 1 points 11h ago
Is /r/funny still down 😭
ifeelallthefeels 1 points 5h ago
What’s up with the Jon Oliver gave me coins thing?
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