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What's going on with UFO / UAP disclosure and the bipartisan bill currently being proposed by the Senate? (self.OutOfTheLoop)
submitted 17h ago by CaptainChalky
I follow a few UFO subs purely out of curiosity and they all seem to be super excited about the potential disclosure by the US Government that there is life out there, and that we have supposedly recovered extraterrestrial technologies that private companies have been attempting to reverse engineer.

It's getting really hard to separate the wheat from the chaff and what's actually happening versus the conjecture on certain subs that might hold a bit of bias. I've seen extracts posted from the bill speaking about private companies having to surrender any technologies etc, but what's really happening with this bill, and how much credibility are these theories getting in the mainstream?

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/senators-move-require-release-us-government-ufo-records-2023-07-14/

https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/14zng6e/unidentified_anomalous_phenomena_disclosure_act/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=1
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GucciReeves 471 points 11h ago
Answer: a whistleblower named David Grusch, who was formerly a representative to the USA's Unidentified Aerial Phenomena Task Force, came forward in June alleging that the US government had recovered intact non-human spacecraft and the bodies of their pilots. He has also alleged that the secretive program in charge of the captured non-human material has murdered US citizens in order to keep their activities secret.

In order to legally act as a whistleblower, Grusch first had to clear all the information he planned to publicly reveal with the US government to ensure that no classified information would be exposed, which they allowed. This could indicate that Grusch has revealed legitimate, non-classified information, but could also indicate that his claims were not classified because they do not relate to an existing government program.

~~After Grusch gave testimony to Congress~~ [Official hearings are scheduled for later this month] After hearing Grusch's story, Senator Chuck Schumer introduced an amendment that would create a commission with the ability to declassify government records related to this topic, which is modeled after a similar commission created to declassify information related to the JFK assassination. This amendment is likely to pass and become law as part of an upcoming defense spending bill.

Up to this point, no evidence other than individual testimony related to Grusch's claims has been released. Grusch says that he has seen evidence (images and reports) that back up his claims, but that they are classified and cannot be publicly released.
Aloqi 208 points 3h ago
To be clear, Grusch claims *other people* have seen pictures, and the things in the pictures.
Mindshred1 1 points 2h ago
Yeah, there's no way that the Trump found out aliens are real and didn't immediately tweet that out to everyone.
BudgetMattDamon 1 points 1h ago
As if anyone would have allowed that blabbermouth to know anything *that* important. Nukes? Fine, but aliens? Nah.
garry4321 1 points 58m ago
They arent telling Trump SHIT. Fairly sure the military already said that they were going to refuse if he ordered nukes used.
Akanash_ 45 points 3h ago
Yeah, it's all second hand info. Most certainly unreliable at best. There is 0 scientific basis for any of the claims put forward.
Perfect-Direction-63 11 points 2h ago
No scientific basis whatsoever. But this shit is fundamentally entirely different than any fervor in the past. The fact Grusch is going through the official channels makes the shit worth a notice and a look. The potential in his claims is lethal. Either there's something behind his claims or there's not. If there is, obviously, it's world changing. If not, it sets the whole alien/ufo crowd back probably a decade or two, as far as legitimacy.
Akanash_ 1 points 1h ago
I understand that, but it's far more likely that it's "the government is doing some shady shit" rather than "alien are a thing".

Going through the official channel doesn't make the alien fever dream any more real. The fact that this is all second hand information makes it even less trustworthy.

Hitchens's razor (twice): "what can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence"

Regardless, as long as we get more (some) government transparency I guess that's a win, but anybody who except that anything concrete (alien-wise) will emerge from this is delusional.

Edit:

*Tinfoil hat ON* this may even be a false flag operation from the military to root-out potential deflector/whistleblower.
kensingtonGore 1 points 1h ago
But those other people are the directors or members of the programs that aren't supposed to exist. Who have already testified under oath.

Grusch also has documents that prove the programs are real - code names, locations, addresses, dates and which groups/contractors are hosting these programs. This is the information given to the two inspector general's who found his claims 'credible and urgent,' and then turned over to oversight. Along with testimony given under oath from those with direct involvement in the programs.

He's like an index of these programs which the Pentagon says don't exist and aren't legally disclosed to oversight as they should be. Aliens or not, that's illegal. It's also much easier to prove these programs exist at all, as opposed to proving what the top secret programs have accomplished.

If true, I have an incredibly hard time imagining why a UFO recovery program would be funded and active for 80 years if they had nothing to collect or store.
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hahaha01 21 points 2h ago
>After Grusch gave testimony to Congress, Senator Chuck Schumer introduced an amendment that would create a commission with the ability to declassify government records related to this topic, which is modeled after a similar commission created to declassify information related to the JFK assassination.

Grusch filed a whistleblower claim with the inspector general which was deemed 'urgent and credible' but testimony was not given to Congress. I understand that meetings have taken place with Congress. Also a classified hearing related to the whistleblower claim where only like two people, likely lawyers, from Congress were involved. However the testimony hasn't been given to Congress at this stage in open sessions but is being scheduled for the upcoming weeks. Grusch gave an interview to a reporter as you mentioned which seems to be the catalyst more than anything.

Great summary otherwise, just think that part was misleading or I've missed something.
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redditgiveshemorroid 6 points 3h ago
Wait, what happened with the JFK stuff?
clyde2003 11 points 2h ago
Turns out JFK's head "just did that."
mrkruk 4 points 2h ago
Nothing much of significance.
SuperSpecialAwesome- 1 points 1h ago
https://www.dallasobserver.com/news/thousands-of-jfk-assassination-documents-still-withheld-after-latest-release-15585443
Critical_Werewolf 60 points 7h ago
Absolutely nuts if true.
thejawa 102 points 5h ago
People thought the declassification of JFK Assassination documents was gonna be nuts too.
bondagewithjesus 27 points 5h ago
Wasn't a bunch that redacted though?
thejawa 46 points 4h ago
And we think anything released by this commission won't be?
SuperSpecialAwesome- 1 points 1h ago
Tbf not all the JFK documents have been released
corginugami 41 points 6h ago
One visit to the UFOs sub will show it isn’t. They’re gullible enough to think streetlights are aliens.
Critical_Werewolf 20 points 6h ago
Sometimes people see what they want to see.
DarthMauledByABear 11 points 5h ago
r/UFOs typically debunk videos/images more than anyone.
the_other_irrevenant 0 points 5h ago
> They’re gullible enough to think streetlights are aliens.

Okay, I need to know more about this.
Zul_rage_mon 1 points 3h ago
They made that up. I'm someone who's skeptical but r/UFOs usually debunks videos and images. For a sub who believes that UFOs are real they don't buy into everything.
gerd50501 13 points 4h ago
Its not. dude. its all bullshit. there is a reason all these "UFOs" are with grainy photos. cause its bullshit. There is a reason its only in the US cause its bullshit. Only the US? McDonalds is global. Even if they were addicted to Big Macs the little green men could get them everywhere.

Do not believe the Netflix "documentary" ancient aliens.
LarsLasse 24 points 3h ago
You do realise that UFO sightings is a worldwide phenomena, right? It's just that there was a big boom in the States after the Roswell incident and people got hung up on it. UK, Sweden, Russia, Japan etc all have UFO sightings reported
gerd50501 -15 points 3h ago
vast majority are in the US. i dont see any legit research scientists go yeah this is serious. they all think its bullshit.
re-goddamn-loading 47 points 4h ago
I'm not arguing whether or not UFOs are "all bullshit" but you're completely wrong when you say sightings only happen in the US lol
gerd50501 -33 points 4h ago
you can find maps of UFO sitings. its almost exclusively the US.
perhapsaduck 23 points 3h ago
> is a reason all these "UFOs" are with grainy photos.

But they're not anymore?

The Nimitz footage isn't grainy, it was perfectly captured by the US navy? What the fuck is that thing?
Sirlothar 7 points 2h ago
> What the fuck is that thing?

I am convinced one of the videos (GoFast) was of a migratory bird that the pilots were pretty excited to lock onto. It was about 1M in size and pretty far away from the fighter jet and moving in the opposite direction. It wasn't behaving oddly or doing anything a large bird couldn't do.

The other two videos, FLIR and GIMBOL look to me like the backside of another jet. They seem a bit more unexplained but they are not doing anything that another jet couldn't do and it's hard to see detail from the infrared cameras.
gerd50501 -4 points 3h ago
the stuff i saw on CNN was grainy. Its also likely something to do with weather and not some aliens. they just dont know what it is. I do not see any scientists going yeah, that be aliens. they all think its just some weather thing or a balloon or something. there is a reason that trained research scientists don't buy this stuff.
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UnequalBull 6 points 4h ago
Your cynicism could be excused just a few years ago but if you were to spend just 5 minutes trying to appreciate the tidal wave of information that has been coming out lately, you'd know that dismissing it as bullshit on contact is just orthodoxy, the same trust-me-bro attitude that you're mocking.

Re: *only in US point* \- It's not just US, and other countries might be in the same position - having reports, evidence, recordings, material etc. in their possession.

Hence *Section 11* of the bill in question (*Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena Disclosure Act of 2023*):

*(2) the Secretary of State should contact any foreign government that may hold material relevant to unidentified anomalous phenomena, technologies of unknown origin, or non-human intelligence and seek disclosure of such material;*

Source: https://www.congress.gov/amendment/118th-congress/senate-amendment/797/text

Can we appreciate that *US Senate Majority Leader* proposed this bill in the light of whistle-blower testimonies heard by Congress lately? This is not comments section from a Joe Rogan video. This is vanilla, lifetime politicians from both sides of the aisle getting their hands dirty with the subject. It's unprecedented.
gerd50501 -7 points 4h ago
I hope years of therapy can help with the trauma the aliens inflicted.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRdYXr8QpCM
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pnutbuttered -42 points 6h ago
It isn't. Although, for those big thinkers who believe in this, I'm sure it all relates somehow to the agenda narrative globalist woke leftist communist and putting a woman in star wars.
ZeppelinJ0 38 points 6h ago
Did you have a stroke
gerd50501 -1 points 4h ago
Marco Rubio is all over this. you got guys looking for little green men on the right too.
kensingtonGore 1 points 1h ago
Until Schumer came out with the bill it was pretty much only right wing politicians talking about this publicly.
LanceFree 0 points 3h ago
Absolutely nuts.
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robotatomica 9 points 5h ago
Skeptics Guide to the Universe did a thing about this..in summary, it’s poppycock.
Akanash_ 4 points 3h ago
It's never aliens.

By all mesurable metric it's astronomically more likely that an unexplainable phenomenon is actually undiscovered science than it is an alien craft.

Also most of the time the "data" on which assumption are made is either very bare bone or often unusable.

Garbage in garbage out.
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count_no_groni -1 points 2h ago
If you watch the guy’s interviews, he’s clearly full of shit.
jrossetti 1 points 2h ago
What happened in the interviews that make you feel this way?
count_no_groni 3 points 2h ago
He answers direct questions indirectly, talks in circles, laughs at odd moments, says a lot of words without actually saying anything. He’s just dodgy and seems to be either hiding something, or bumping up against the edges of a made up story when asked logical questions. He gave me ancient aliens vibes where he’s like “it’s so crazy, I can’t even get into it. Trust me, bro.”
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count_no_groni 2 points 2h ago
https://youtu.be/MfNrZefD67g these guys do a great breakdown on it.
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FUThead2016 491 points 12h ago
Answer: A little more than a month ago, a former intelligence official named David Grusch came forward as a whistleblower, making claims that there have been ongoing secret UAP craft retrieval and reverse engineering programs hidden inside the US military establishment. He also claimed that certain government entities are in possession of crashed craft, and eve that alien bodies were found. These programs have been clandestine and have been operating away from congressional oversight.
What makes David Grusch very different is that he is one of the most credible individuals that has ever come forward on this topic. He has been very careful to go through all the right channels, because in his position, a lie can cost him many years in jail. So this is not about angling for a book deal or a TV show. His credibility has been checked and validated and vouched for. No one has discredited what he is saying.
He has already provided evidence pertaining this, which has been found 'urgent and credible'. So much so, that there s now a bipartisan push to get the military establishment to reveal what they know. There is a House Intelligence Committee hearing scheduled for 26th July, and a bill to allow for Disclosure has been proposed by Senator Chuck Schumer, whose language is extraordinary. It clearly mentions things like biological evidence, non human intelligence, alludes to historical events, establishes eminent domain over private companies who have access to some of these technologies, and urges government officials to start talking to their international counterparts to enable cooperation on these matters.
These events, coupled with the fact that in the past the Pentagon has confirmed a few leaked videos of UAP to be true, an people like Obama softly acknowledging the existence of the phenomenon, is building a situation where clearly something is going on.
There are several theories, from the alien theory, to the existence of a gigantic financial scam perpetuated by the military, to a deep conflict between government and private aerospace companies, to a psyops effort to prepare for UFO conspiracy theory stuff. Something is going on.
DeweyCox4YourHealth 130 points 12h ago
I like this explanation, but honest question: when did Obama softly acknowledge the phenomenon? Not to say it didn't happen, I just don't remember...
FUThead2016 163 points 12h ago
Well, it sounds a bit silly to write, but Obama made an appearance on the James Corden show, and there was a bit of banter about this. In the middle of that banter, Obama gets a bit serious and says, well yes there are certain things happening in the sky that we don't quite know what they are.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKSyYTerGTI
AwesomeFama 110 points 9h ago
The US government has even released videos of UAPs. We literally don't know what they are. Could be aliens, could be unknown natural phenomena, could be swamp gas and weather balloons that just looked weird. But it's quite simply true that there are certain things happening in the sky that we don't know what they are, and we have video evidence.

It's not really saying or implying they are aliens IMO.
OriginalLocksmith436 35 points 7h ago
Most of those videos ended up being oddly easy to explain. The real mystery is why they would release those and pretend like there was anything unexplained about them.
asphias 19 points 7h ago
Those UAP videos are a complete joke, and have been released in bad faith.

One of them is literally called GIMBAL.mov, and what we see has a perfectly mundane explanation that just happens to involve gimbal mechanics.

Why on earth would the pentagon release it with that name if they didn't know about the mundane explanation, yet they released it anyway.

Also, some of the programs recently funded have been done so after pushing from true believers like mr. bigelow, and have then gone on to work on those very programs.
gelfin 5 points 3h ago
Yeah, it turns out it is really, *really* easy to take a photo or video that does not contain enough information to identify the subject of the photo or video. It’s literally what the “U” part means.
aHorseSplashes 4 points 5h ago
Don't forget pancakes, or perhaps an exceptionally energetic manhole cover, which I suppose could look like a pancake under certain conditions.
UnequalBull 0 points 4h ago
If anyone is curious, I would recommend long-format interviews/podcasts with ex-navy pilots and instructors David Fravor & Ryan Graves, both appeared on numerous platforms. Lex Friedman's episodes are pretty good.

Re: easily explainable balloons, weather phenomena etc. - these guys have stories of dozens of people on aircraft carriers monitoring these objects on radar of multiple modalities for weeks-on-end. Followed by pilots regularly getting visual contact outside the cockpit window with objects that were moving without any apparent inertia, or freely transitioning between water/air mediums, accelerating to hypersonic speeds from hover, generating lift without flying surfaces etc. There were run-ins so close with them that Fravor mentions having to file near-collision reports as per navy procedures.

While of course these are just witness testimonies, they are corroborated by many other military personnel, and Pentagon casually released some infrared footage of these objects being tracked mid-flight. This is tip of the iceberg, as many videos would be too revealing of sensor capabilities - hopefully these classified files will be presented to Congress or their investigative bodies.
Zeoxult 44 points 10h ago
That could easily mean something else aside from "aliens". There are many things that occur in space we aren't able to explain.
tugboatnavy -9 points 9h ago
It could, but it's also a dog whistle.
iiSystematic -8 points 8h ago
Noone said aliens but you.
kensingtonGore 21 points 12h ago
The Obama foundation is also working with Netflix to produce a project about Betty and Barney Hill, one if the most famous abduction stories in UFO lore, from 1961.
OriginalLocksmith436 9 points 7h ago
I honestly think the "establishment" is just trying to make alien conspiracies cool again in the hopes that people start following innocent shit like that again instead of getting sucked down the extremist rabbit holes that most modern conspiracy theories lead to. I'm not sure why else they would keep dangling it in front of public view while actually offering nothing of substance.
AmbitiousPatio 7 points 10h ago
Also one of the least credible
SweetSoursop 0 points 8h ago
I always doubted the Hill case.

But Mussolini, Varginhas and Vilas-Boas feel so compeling.
Clayh5 8 points 10h ago
That is the most interesting thing I've seen in this thread, when taken with everything else here.
AmbitiousPatio 8 points 10h ago
The Hills were crazy. They were likely attacked by a racist group, and their trauma made it seem like they were abducted. A tv show that was very similar to their story was aired that week of their experience
ParadoxDC 35 points 12h ago
He has said in several interviews that there are indeed things that have been witnessed that cannot be explained. https://youtu.be/xp6Ph5iTIgc
GaidinBDJ 31 points 8h ago
> that cannot be explained.

That **haven't** been explained.
ParadoxDC -5 points 7h ago
Well if you watched the video he literally says “we **can’t** explain” their movements because it defies our current understanding of physics.
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cogginsmatt 31 points 11h ago
Can I ask a follow up: why exactly is this guy so credible? You said his credibility checks out but I don’t understand why
bencherry 23 points 11h ago
High security clearance, actual career history in the relevant areas, and he’s going through proper whistleblower channels instead of the media (although he did one media interview after he’d already done a lot of work through government channels).
tgloser 16 points 11h ago
David Grush just so happens to be one a very few amount of IC insiders who had the tasking to review ALL SAPs and other covert and non covert programs of the US government with the primary goal of investigating the anamolus phenomena so many have reported. He was denied access. He (as far as I've been able to gather), began quietly collecting other military servicemen and women of excellent standing and character who were tdy'd within and had unique viewpoints of these programs. These fine folks have been giving congressional testimony away from prying eyes and ears over the last few weeks. One can draw the inference from the extraordinary language of the proposed bill by Schumer that it must have been rather spicy testimony.
Unhelpful_Kitsune 117 points 11h ago
You're giving Grousch a lot of credit and skipping over the fact that he stated he has not seen or been involved in any of these things and he knows this information solely from speaking to other (unidentified) people.

In short Grousch knows a guy who's cousin heard from some other guy that the government has aliens.

Meanwhile the government is spending billions trying to figure our what UAPs are.
backyardserenade 55 points 10h ago
That's a very oversimplified assessment.

Grusch is a former intelligence official with a high clearance throughout his career. His last position was at AARO, which has the very purpose to investigate UAPs. His character and career have been vetted, most notably by the Guardian. And through his former positions, work and conduct he is considered a very credible character.

Also keep in mind that Grusch did not just run to the next best TV station and gave an interview. He used official whistleblower channels to fill his complaints with the DOD and apparently congress in 2021 and 2022. He also gave evidence through these channels which he is not allowed to share publicly. From my understanding, Grusch even counseled officials on new whistleblower legislation which went into effect last year.

Due to his clearance, Grusch was able to take testimony and evidence from a wide variety of witnesses. Some of this information was highly classified. Grusch could view this information due to his own clearance. But AARO could not use some of these, because the project itself does not have a high enough security clearance. Which is absurd. AARO can't fully investigate the very thing it was created to investigate. This is the main aspect of Grusch's whistleblower complaint.

There's a lot of fantastic and (frankly) absurd claims made by Grusch. But from everything we know, he is considered a very credible witness who has taken a lot of right steps to share his knowledge. I am very curious what all of this will turn out to be, but it doesn't seem like Grusch himself is an aspect that discredits all of these current revelations. On top of that, there appear to be a number of additional whistleblowers, who have not spoken publicly so far.
historicusXIII 19 points 7h ago
> AARO can't fully investigate the very thing it was created to investigate. This is the main aspect of Grusch's whistleblower complaint.

Well, there's a major difference between "the oversight isn't working as it should" and "we have extraterrestrial bodies". The first one is something we should take serious from the whistle blower, but on the second I will need a bit more evidence than "this guy is really trustworthy".
zeldn 41 points 8h ago
When the main argument for the truth of unfathomable extraordinary claims is that the guy who said it is a “really decent guy who isn’t known to lie”, that is intensely uninteresting to me.
Critical_Werewolf -6 points 7h ago
If he's found out to be lying he could go to jail what good does that do him? He's either telling the truth or he's delusional and I'm interested to know which one personally.
backyardserenade -10 points 8h ago
OK, I guess.
Hemingwavy 53 points 9h ago
Man I love UFO conspiracy theorists.

>You're oversimplifying what he witnessed.

>Oh what'd he witness?

>Nothing.

Well from where I'm standing I'd have to admit labelling what he witnessed as nothing seems to be accurate.
backyardserenade 3 points 8h ago
Don't know what you are getting worked up about?

Grusch has never claimed that he witnessed UAPs himself. But he has claimed that he interviewed people who have in his capacity as an investigator for AARO. And that he has seen credible evidence of UAPs and retrival programms. He has shared this evidence with official whistleblower bodies from the DOD and in hearings with the House of Representatives. As he's following official procedures, he cannot share this evidence with the public unless its cleared by the DOD.

"He has seen nothing" is not the rebuke you think it is. Consider this: If (big if!) the congressional hearings reveal the existence of retrieved UAP, it's very likely that none of us will ever actually see a UAP craft in person. But we will see evidence of some kind.

I honestly have no clue what to make about his claims. But the way he is coming forth with his whistleblower complaint seems to be by the book. And he is taken seriously by a number of officials, which is what makes this situation so interesting.
Vladesku 0 points 6h ago
It's like watching the CIA and NSA concern troll. One's trying to downplay it and the other's blowing it out of proportion.
Unhelpful_Kitsune 14 points 9h ago
There's been a bunch of experts that have publicly doubted his claims. The guardian itself conducted at least one of these interviews.

It's also highly suspect and hypocritical for Grousch to come out and say, "The government is covering up X in this classified project and there's evidence but I can't share it because it's classified..." People use "it's classified" as an attention grabbing tool because they know the government can't and won't disclose if what they are saying is either true or false. Therefore you can say whatever you want and spin the response.

Saying, oh he's vetted and held clearances, doesn't actually have any meaning. If Grousch wanted to make this public he could have just released a single document proving his claim. A part time airman managed to do it, but Grousch just talks out of both sides of his mouth. Hell even r/conspiracy and r/aliens thinks he is full of it.
backyardserenade 9 points 8h ago
It's my understanding that he's following official whistleblower procedures of the DOD. He legally cannot simply share evidence with the public unless it has been cleared by authorities. He has, however, shared evidence with the respective whistleblower body and apparently in closed hearings in the House of Representatives.

I have no idea about the factual truth about his claims. But the ways he has taken to bring these claims forth seems to be the way to go.
wild_man_wizard 3 points 7h ago
The "Part Time Airman" is in federal prison now, and thought he was bringing about his glorious Nazi revolution by leaking classified info.

Grousch has neither the inclination to go to prison, nor the fervor or urgency to expedite the process. If the information is potentially decades old and the whistleblower process is slowly grinding away anyway, why besides clout would anyone risk it?
Things_Poster -1 points 6h ago
There's no way you're actually this dumb... Releasing classified documents when you're under NDA lands you in supermax sharing your pureed peaches with Chelsea Manning.

Also, who are these "experts" doubting his claims? Experts in what exactly? Were they bigger experts than the inspector general of the intelligence community, who has seen the classified evidence and referred to Grusch's allegations as "urgent and credible"?
karmavorous 1 points 1h ago
Can you provide a link to any source that backs up any of his resume?

Or are we just taking this all on Grush's publicists words?

The whole "I didn't see it myself, I just heard from some people I work with...", is a great rhetorical trick to make that nothing he says a provable lie in any legal binding way. It's a Perjury before Congress get out of jail free clause. Like George's *it's not a lie if you believe it*.

And honestly, I've never heard of the guy. People act like they had heard of him in some context *before* he came out with these and now that he has that public trust he's coming out with more information. Even one anecdote about him - he testified Congress about burn pits or something (not saying he did that, giving an example of where he might have been in the news regarding non-UFO related info. Some context.

It kind of seems like we're just taking his word for it... and a really polished "defense news" website that only has articles specifically regarding this - almost like a viral marketing campaign for a future Close Encounters reboot or something/not like an actual whistleblower.
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Godwinson4King 28 points 10h ago
It’s like he overheard a guy who swears he saw something while he was flying an F-16 over the pacific, but the guy was really only ever a mechanic on an aircraft carrier.

There are a ton of big stories out there, many of them are not true.
Unhelpful_Kitsune 19 points 10h ago
Yea and this is a common tune. Small ex government employee shares top secret alien info with no proof.
thejawa 13 points 5h ago
If you go read through some of the UFO subreddit's stuff, the things are just wild.

From ONE post:

* "Greys" from 40 light-years away are living on Earth and have for thousands of years. They have a policy of non-intervention unless Humans target them, in which case humans as a species will cease to be.
* The Greys live in our oceans and have crafts that are capable of going from ocean floor to atmosphere to space very quickly.
* Despite the previous claim that the Greys live in the ocean, there's 4 alien bases near 4 mountains across the world, including one in Alaska.
* These Greys have recently met with Joe Biden (who cleared his schedule to do so under the pretense of a root canal) and other high ranking government officials and there's video of the meeting.
* There's video of an F-16 which was disintegrated by the Greys (so much for non-intervention) which clearly shows the craft and the pilots.
* The Greys didn't like that we developed nukes and they met with Eisenhower and convinced him to not use nukes again.
* The US has been the leader in attempting to work with the Greys while China has been trying to antagonize the Greys.

Of course, all this is sourced from an unnamed aerospace company executive who is debating on whether or not to testify to Congress as a whistleblower and has video evidence which is set with a kill-switch, where the videos will either come out the day he testifies or will come out anyways if he doesn't.
julianmas 2 points 8h ago
I agree, indeed there are numerous big stories circulating around and unfortunately, not all of them hold truth.
FUThead2016 1 points 6h ago
Well no, he was specifically asked to look into this and the sixth thing he found will shock you!!! Jokes apart, this one is not so easily explained away by saying that he’s just another loony
greywolfe12 -7 points 10h ago
Damn government spooks workin fast to discredit UFOs again
Unhelpful_Kitsune 23 points 9h ago
Grousch: "People hear me, the government has a secret classified project involving aliens!"

People: "Proof or gtfo."

Grousch" "Sorry the proff is classified."

People: "But so is the project and you had no problem talking about that..."
bw4ferns 1 points 9h ago
You're leaving out the part where he testified to Congress, a place where he can share the classified information. He may not have revealed that info to the public, because he can't, but he has revealed it to people who can actually take action. And since that time they have, so there's reason to believe there's something there. Time will tell.
historicusXIII 8 points 6h ago
Nothing to do with government (I am not even American). The presence of extraterrestrial remains on earth, whether biological or technological, is an extraordinary claim which requires extraordinary evidence. Until the moment that independent peer reviewed scientific research confirms these alien remains, I will continue to discredit them as highly unlikely to be true.
ParadoxDC -3 points 8h ago
What a pathetic, bad-faith misrepresentation of what David came forward with. He literally was a member of the Pentagon task force charged with investigating UAPs and spoke to people with first hand knowledge of crash retrieval programs in that professional capacity.
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Drakayne 0 points 2h ago
Yeah but grusch isn't a nobody form down the road
Unhelpful_Kitsune 5 points 2h ago
Everyone is a nobody. Titles and clearances don't mean you are trustworthy or in the know. I've worked with enough of these people, all of them no more trustworthy than their corporate counterparts.
Drakayne 0 points 2h ago
Only time will tell
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OriginalLocksmith436 16 points 7h ago
Sorry to burst your bubble but I think we all know Trump would have blabbed about if there was anything there. There's just no possible way he would have been able to resist all the potential attention and praise he would have received if he disclosed evidence of aliens or out of this world tech.

For whatever reason, the government has been making a conscious decision to dangle this kind of thing in front of the public for a few years now, and this is just a continuation of that. Whenever it comes down to evidence, all they ever end up releasing are some videos that are, confusingly, quite easily explained without having to involve aliens or spaceships, so don't get your hopes up.
Mekanimal 12 points 6h ago
If I were a government agency responsible for the responsible dissemination of UAPs, I certainly wouldn't tell that Orange twat anything.
Suspicious-Tip-8199 1 points 5h ago
Yea would imagine in order to start hidden discretion wokd be required. Presidents are such short term leaders that imagine most wouldn't be brought up to speed.
SuperSpecialAwesome- 1 points 1h ago
Federal agencies outlast presidencies. A person is only president for 1-2 terms, while these agencies will be ran for decades. Therefore, a President might not be given all classified intelligence, especially in Trump’s case. But who knows.
Khalis_Knees 0 points 2h ago
For whatever reason = $$$. This review board will cost the American taxpayers $20 million dollars in Fiscal 2024. Politicians get to reward their friends again with high paying jobs that require no effort and also placate the rubes at the same time, just look to this thread as an example of that.

People are also missing that the President gets to veto any decision made by the board so nothing will be released. And it doesn't matter anyways, the government can release everything even showing their hand on military tech and most alien nutjobs would still claim they are lying so this is all nonsense.
hungariannastyboy 9 points 6h ago
Holy shit, I thought you people were confined to /r/UFOs.

oNe Of tHe MoSt CrEdIbLe InDiViDuAlS
asphias 11 points 7h ago
> coupled with the fact that in the past the Pentagon has confirmed a few leaked videos of UAP to be true

See, the problem is that these UAP videos have been easily debunked, and even the names that were used to release them point at the mundane explanation. (E.g. "GIMBAL.mov" being a video that can be explained by looking at gimbal camera mechanics).

Moreover, the department has been "infiltrated" by a bunch of true believers, so its absolutely no surprise they find evidence - they're not skeptical about anything they find, they *want* to believe.

I dont know the details on this David, and would be incredibly excited if he shows anything unexpected, but please dont fall for the hype when absolutely no proof has been given so far. It's just that those guys you'd normally see on Discovery channels "did aliens build the pyramids?" Are now working for the pentagon.
Blenderhead36 1 points 26m ago
For anyone else wondering, "UAP," stands for, "Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon." Basically an updated/broader term than UFO (Unidentified Flying Object) that doesn't necessarily claim the anomaly is an object.
HummingAlong4Now 0 points 4h ago
This is very interesting. If I remember correctly, the credibility of the State Dept people claiming to be getting sick from unidentified sounds while working overseas was also what convinced Blinken to start taking the claims seriously and reopening an investigation. "Mass hysteria" had otherwise been the explanation.
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ParadoxDC 92 points 12h ago
Answer: The legislation in question is an amendment proposed for the National Defense Authorization Act by Chuck Schumer and co-sponsored by a bipartisan group of senators. The Schumer part is a REALLY big deal because he is the Senate Majority Leader and a member of the Gang of Eight. The legislation calls for the immediate transfer of any and all records related in any way, shape, or form to UAPs to the National Archives, where they will be placed in a special collection. A review board will be established, with members appointed by the President, to work through reviewing and declassifying these records ASAP. Notably, the amendment specifically states that there should be a presumption that all records will be declassified and that the panel is basically determining if there’s a reason that certain records CAN’T be. All of the details of this process, timelines, definitions, etc are all outlined in the amendment in iron-clad and minute detail.

This is an incredible development for many, many reasons, but notably that Chuck Schumer would not propose such a “controversial” amendment without being given the ok from the White House (they cannot have Biden vetoing legislation proposed by a Democrat, and the majority leader no less), and because of the seriousness and specificity of the amendment. Tl;dr, they are not messing around anymore and the Schumer amendment would almost certainly result in not only Disclosure but the release of many many pieces of evidence that the government has been hiding for 80 years.
windowlatch 16 points 11h ago
Will the public have access to everything in the national archives or does it get read through and censored?
Leprochon 43 points 11h ago
We will have access to everything including >![redacted]!<
St_Kevin_ 7 points 10h ago
Exactly
ParadoxDC 34 points 11h ago
Yep the amendment specifically outlines that all material will be made available to the public digitally online and by request if someone wants hard copies of the records. Some material may be deemed extra sensitive to national security and withheld or redacted for that reason but again the goal is to release as much as humanly possible. The panel basically has to justify why a document should be withheld or redacted. Now you may think “ok well a panel appointed by POTUS will just continue to keep everything classified” but nope, because the panel will be comprised of impartial citizens with specific backgrounds. People like an economist, a sociologist, a scientist, a historian, and several others. It’s all outlined, and the goal of course is to have a diverse panel that will weigh the records against many factors, and to prevent career defense officials from stonewalling.
wild_man_wizard 4 points 7h ago
There's significant daylight between a philosophy of "everything about this is classified" and "Everything about this should be unclassified except national security secrets."
navyptsdvet 2 points 11h ago
We don't know but more than likely it will be read through and redacted as much as necessary for anything related to national security.
Repulsive-Bench9860 12 points 10h ago
It's easy for Schumer, et al, to allow this legislation to go forward when they know full well that nothing of value is going to be released. It's a grift. The UFO guys get the government to pay for their "research," and they can then make officious releases that use impressive sounding government titles to create an aura of seriousness and legitimacy. The politicians involved don't care because they know the cost of these programs is miniscule compared to actually doing anything, and no voters outside the UFO echo chamber will care about the outcome. And the UFO consuming public won't be bothered because they already believe literally everything; and when nothing of interest is found they will just see it as further evidence of the UFO coverup conspiracy that they already believe in.
ParadoxDC -9 points 10h ago
Getting tired of folks just unilaterally declaring it to be a grift or BS. I’m not even going to waste my time arguing. You’ll be eating your words on July 26th when there is a public House committee hearing on this. If you think the Senate Majority Leader not only expended political capital by speaking out on this issue at all AND bothered to have a 64 page amendment drafted if there was nothing to it, you’re completely out of your mind. Read the damn text. It says in black and white they have already had sworn testimony and that is the onus for it. Maybe, just maybe, you are not as informed as senators.
Repulsive-Bench9860 20 points 10h ago
I'll make you a deal, if any actual evidence comes out of these shenanigans, I will happily post about how wrong I was, in any UFO sub you like. But if nothing comes of it, will you do the same? Or are you going to conclude that the lack of evidence is evidence of the century-long, international coverup conspiracy that we're supposedly fighting?
ParadoxDC -3 points 8h ago
You’re a bad-faith actor by declaring it a grift. You could just say “personally I find this unlikely” but you have gone further and simply and baselessly declared that it’s a lie. My stance is “based on the evidence that I have seen in the last few years, there seems to be something to this”. We will all find out soon.
sumofdeltah 4 points 6h ago
The thing is people have been saying it's just around the corner and we will be eating our words for decades. We're starving from the lack of eating our words, but the people who say it are fat on their own words.
lawpoop 38 points 11h ago
Answer: So, first things first, just because it's in a bill, or somebody said something on the floor of congress, doesn't mean that it's a statement of fact. Congress is full of regular people-- perhaps even over-representing people who are somewhat different than normal (I think you have to have some level of narcissism to survive a campaign for national political office, nevermind win), and they can believe and say anything they want to, on the floor of the house.

Please also keep in mind that everything I will state below is all just *stuff people have said*. Those people may be more or less credible, have certain credentials, a successful career in the military or intelligence agencies, but at the end of the day, all we have right now is what people have said.

There are two factions of people in this series of developments, who we should keep track of: 1. the politicians who express interest or willingness to pursue "disclosure", and 2. The members of the military, intelligence agencies, government contractors, and other employees who claim to have access to documentation -- _and sometimes even the crafts themselves_ -- who are willing to come forward and state those claims on the record.

First, let's look at the politicians. At least one member of Hilary Clinton's campaign, John Podesta, expressed an interest in spearheading UFO disclosure. Campaign members close to the candidate are usually rewarded with cabinet positions if the candidate wins, so he likely would have been able to pursue this.

Hillary Clinton Gives U.F.O. Buffs Hope She Will Open the X-Files

Hillary Clinton Promises to Share Government Info on U.F.O.s

Obviously Hillary lost, so disclosure didn't happen as some had hoped.

Interestingly, President Trump later said in an interview he was brief on Navy pilot sightings of UFOs: https://www.politico.com/story/2019/06/15/trump-says-he-doesnt-particularly-believe-ufo-reports-1365848

So there is some interest among certain politicians to release more information to the public about what the government may know about UFOs. Interestingly one of those politicians is Senator Gillibrand, the junior senator from New York, who took Hillary's senate seat after she left to run for president-- so Gillibrand may be carrying the torch of Hillary's disclosure plans.

You are probably aware that several years ago, the New York times ran an article about a secret government program to track UAPs, or what we used to call UFOs. In tandem with the article, they also released videos recorded by Navy pilots and other craft operators, of the UFOs, from 2 or 3 incidents in the past 20 years.

The source of this information and the Navy videos is a man named Lou Elizondo, who was the head of that secret program. Long short, he claimed to have quit his position in protest that the military and government weren't doing more to research UAPs and understand any threat they may pose to the US.

After a period of media and talkshow appearances -- as far as I can tell, primarily on UFO and related podcasts-- he left the limelight of media and claimed to be working behind the scenes with others in the government who were willing to come forward.

After this release of information, congress created a new UFO agency and charged it with reporting their findings. In the summer of 2022, congress had the first hearings on UFOs since the 1960s (interestingly lead by then-congressman Gerald Ford, whose constituents in Michigan had had UFO experiences and were unsatisfied with government explanations. This is the sighting where the famous "swamp gas" debunking/explanation originates from).

The findings of the task force at that point were disappointing, to say the least, but one should note that the agency was seemingly underfunded and didn't have a strong enough legal mandate. So the congresspeople who are supporting disclosure moved to give them more funding and a better mandate. That was a year ago.

Meanwhile, Elizondo seems to have been making good on his promise to get other whisteblowers to come forward, and in the past month, the first one has-- David Grusch, an Air Force Intelligence official, who in the past month testified that the US goverment (and others) has recovered crashed vehicles... and the pilots, on some occasions. Again, remember, though he may be credible, and he is testifying under oath, it's still just his story.

He purportedly has provided the documentation to the relevant Senate committees, but those documents are understandably classified.

So now, with the situation seeming to be 1. The military dragging its feet on the official new investigation, 2. at least one additional whistleblower having come forward, and more promised, the politicians who are supporting disclosure are working with those presently-behind-the-scenes whistleblowers, to write new legislation that closes loopholes and has less wiggle room for the military and contractors to wiggle out of.

For instance, if congress passes a new law saying that the military, government agencies, and contractors all have to release whatever information they have on UFOs, they will all say, "That's fine, we don't have anything on UFOs", because the new term for them is UAP. That might sound like a word game, and to some extent it is. But that's the reality that lawmakers have to work with.

THIS IS SPECULATION ON THE PART OF UFO RESEARCHERS. One of the theories you will hear on UFO podcasts is that the US goverment gave recovered craft to military contractors, such as Lockheed Martin and other defense contractors, in order to skirt FOIA laws and other government oversight. Private corporations have much less accountability and obligation to the public. WHAT I'VE JUST MENTIONED IS SPECULATION BY UFO RESEARCHERS.

So pro-disclosure politicians have put language in the Defense Spending bill (the giant and ever-increasing mountain of cash that congress dumps on the military) to attempt to nail down all the UFO stuff, no matter what its called, or who has it, military or contractor. The defense spending bill has popular bi-partisan support, and it contains millions of other things, of which a tiny UFO agency and some new laws regarding disclosure, are barely noticeable. So, that's how these lawmakers have been able to push this through.

There's many more details I've left out, but I can't be writing all night.

The next hearing is scheduled (tentatively) for July 27th! Hopefully a new whistleblower! : D
I_AM_FERROUS_MAN 6 points 9h ago
Thank you for the thorough answer!

I'm, personally, quite incredulous that there's anything substantive to this outside of some people wanting attention and others wanting attention directed elsewhere.
Hemingwavy 11 points 9h ago
> The source of this information and the Navy videos is a man named Lou Elizondo, who was the head of that secret program. Long short, he claimed to have quit his position in protest that the military and government weren't doing more to research UAPs and understand any threat they may pose to the US.
>
>

Elizondo spends his last few years in military intelligence furiously emailing people to get the UAP footage declassified. After finally being successful he then quits the military, joins Blink 182 star Tom DeLounge's company To the Stars, and now has a gig as the guy you get on cable news to commment on the EXACT FUCKING FOOTAGE he got declassified. Those cable news gigs keep rolling in though. He created an entirely new field of work by declassifying some shitty blurry footage through his military job and now he plays both sides of the field by commenting on it from a civilian perspective.

After all, why would you ever get anyone except Elizondo on? You see Elizondo has a claim to fame that no one other crackpot UFO believer can equal. Elizondo claims he headed up AATIP for the 5 years it existed. The military says he wasn't even part of it but what are they going to do? Declassify the highly secret organisational chart to prove he wasn't head of it? It's fucking genius.
ChadmeisterX 1 points 6h ago
AATIP was a nickname Sen Harry Reid used in his bid to get his pet $22M program, AAWSAP, made special access. He failed, after folks around the Pentagon started asking what it was and higher ups investigated and uncovered all the bizarre non-UFO paranormal stuff and axed the programme. It appears Elizondo kept it going informally as much as he could, using the AATIP name when he gave these non-classified clips to Chris Mellon, who gave them to the NYT reporters. The whole thing must be very embarrassing for the DoD.
Hemingwavy 0 points 4h ago
The whole AATIP thing is incredibly embarrassing and was done by Reid to reward Biglowe, a massive donor. Very embarrassing for Elizondo to ever be on payroll and doubly embarrassing to have been finagled by him.
CherryBeanCherry 5 points 9h ago
The thing is, every part of this seems reasonable and plausible, as long as you don't assume non- human means extra-terrestrial. The government should be keeping track of things flying above us. I'd be shocked if we hadn't recovered test vehicles (from other countries, private industry, rich weirdos), and it isn't a huge stretch to imagine someone using animal test-pilots, just like NASA did in the 60s. And I would not be shocked if recovered vehicles were given to the aerospace industry for analysis.

My personal conspiracy theory is that any redacted information actually has to do with what technology other countries have access to, and our government doesn't want them to know what we know.

What I *want* the answer to be is that there are other technologically advanced species living on our planet; they're just pretty good at hiding. Would that not be an excellent plot for a movie?
hockeycross 4 points 8h ago
Your middle is almost guaranteed to be what it is mixed in with some asteroids, that potentially had large metal deposits. Maybe some records of cloud formations that need more research. Also satellites that didn't completely burn up on reentry.

Honestly how likely is it people would completely cover this up if it is the scale the whistleblower is talking about. We had trouble covering up the Manhattan project and that was in an active war with Martial powers, and before news created could be so easily reported. This would be going on for decades at bases where soldiers would get reassigned.
notepad20 1 points 6h ago
If you take even 10% of the thing at face value it hasn't been successfully covered up at all, dozens of people over decades have come out saying this or that.

I would imagine it's more of an accidental conspiracy, and various bodies, agencies, and contactors all have little.bits that the others don't know about and no one is actually overseeing a whole cover up. It just a taboo and hush hush topic, say an army base gets hold of something, someone half in the know says get it off to Lockheed, destroy the records and forget about it, I want to make cornel in the next 5 years.

All you end up with is a dozen grunts and a lieutenant with a half remembered story about the night they packed off a wreck they weren't allowed to ask questions about.

The thing goes in a back door at Lockheed and maybe disappears into a wherehouse, in an unmarked box down the back, like in India Jones. One or two senior guys know a few odd things are about, maybe some engineer is coxed in with very generous stock options to spend 18 months by himself doing analysis.

In the end no big conspiracy, so nothing really to hide. No one at the army knows where it goes, no one down the line knows where it comes from. No hard records exist, nothing to classify.
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elwebst 3 points 10h ago
Great analysis! One thing that concerns me is the fact that it there is evidence for a non-human technological civilization, that will go down hard in fundamentalist religious circles, because it proves we aren't as special as we thought. What about Eden? What about the Flood? Did Jesus visit the aliens too?

I have to wonder if there was legit evidence, the religious community would do everything imaginable to cover it up or discredit it. Has that been addressed in the UFO community?
Beena22 12 points 9h ago
They will do what religions have done for millennia - change their interpretation of their religious texts to fit the narrative.
lawpoop 3 points 2h ago
This is my personal opinion-- the existence of aliens will pose no problems for religions. They already have a world-view populated by non-human intelligences. Adding a few more isn't a problem. The existential threat to religion was The Enlightenment, some 400 years ago.

Some fundamentalist religions will have a problem with it, but disclosure won't ultimately change anything about their religion, or cause any believers to leave the religion, any more than anything else does.

If it turns out that this whole UFO thing is actually some alien civilization, I believe it will cause the public to lose confidence in science, because the scientific community has heaped the most scorn and ridicule on proponents.

Science claims to be the only way to understand the physical universe, and not only was it not able to recognize this pretty important fact-- it actively ridiculed those who were taking it seriously.

That's not a problem of science per se, but rather that science is conducted by human beings, who are social animals. We take our cues from others, and if people broadly believe that a topic is ridiculous, then, on the whole, scientists won't be any different.
transmothra 3 points 8h ago
Answer: A lot of people are mentioning this latest so-called "whistleblower" Grusch, and that's certainly a huge part of the latest craze among the extraterrestrial UFO folks. But I'd like to also point out that this is nothing new. Every year there's another person with a wild set of claims, and they never come to fruition and no hard evidence is ever shared, because these people are always, always, always, 100%, without exception, either crackpots or grifters.

Nothing will eventually come of this. And there's an obvious conclusion to be drawn here, but it'll never, ever cross the minds of all the alien enthusiasts. And the cycle will repeat ad absurdum.
Suspicious-Tip-8199 4 points 6h ago
😵‍💫 which other has gone through this process? Which one has enough evidence shown to Congress in a 7hr hearing that gas gotten a new addendum written with bipartisan support?
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