Reddit Science
Last sync: 1y ago
↑
1095
↓
Researchers have demonstrated an all-solid-state rechargeable air battery composed of a redox-active organic negative electrode and a proton-conductive polymer electrolyte. This can extend battery life of small gadgets such as smartphones and eventually contribute to realizing a carbon-free society. (waseda.jp)
submitted 1d ago by rustoo
AutoModerator 1 points 1d ago
Welcome to r/science! This is a heavily moderated subreddit in order to keep the discussion on science. However, we recognize that many people want to discuss how they feel the research relates to their own personal lives, so to give people a space to do that, **personal anecdotes are allowed as responses to this comment**. Any anecdotal comments elsewhere in the discussion will be removed and our normal comment rules apply to all other comments.
**Do you have an academic degree?** We can verify your credentials in order to assign user flair indicating your area of expertise. Click here to apply.
---
Author: u/rustoo
URL: https://www.waseda.jp/top/en/news/78001
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.*
**Do you have an academic degree?** We can verify your credentials in order to assign user flair indicating your area of expertise. Click here to apply.
---
Author: u/rustoo
URL: https://www.waseda.jp/top/en/news/78001
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.*
AidosKynee 140 points 1d ago
**TL;DR:** Don't get excited. This is, explicitly, a proof of concept.
Air batteries have been something of a holy grail for a while now. Using oxygen as a redox material would give batteries a lot of power, at a much smaller weight. Unfortunately, they've proven nearly impossible to make, for a whole lot of reasons.
These authors believe that it can be done, if the batteries stopped being based on metals - like lithium, nickel, iron, etc. Instead, they used organic molecules, combined with a solid electrolyte.
While results weren't bad for a first attempt, it's nowhere close to competitive with current battery technology. In the future? Maybe. But I wouldn't hold your breath.
Air batteries have been something of a holy grail for a while now. Using oxygen as a redox material would give batteries a lot of power, at a much smaller weight. Unfortunately, they've proven nearly impossible to make, for a whole lot of reasons.
These authors believe that it can be done, if the batteries stopped being based on metals - like lithium, nickel, iron, etc. Instead, they used organic molecules, combined with a solid electrolyte.
While results weren't bad for a first attempt, it's nowhere close to competitive with current battery technology. In the future? Maybe. But I wouldn't hold your breath.
schwermetaller 26 points 22h ago
Well of course you wouldn't hold my breath, I need that, thank you very much!
Phyltre 5 points 20h ago
I mean obviously they're trying to keep you from making an air battery out of it.
Sculptasquad 7 points 20h ago
Oh sh*t! Big AIR? This has to stop now!
cromulent_verbage 2 points 15h ago
“Great. Now we can take every last breath of fresh
air from planet Druidia.”
air from planet Druidia.”
LakeForestDark 3 points 8h ago
Thanks for posting this.
1. Proof of concept.
2. Lab viability.
3. Real world testing (variety of operating environments). Safety testing etc.
4. Production.
5. Scale production, source materials, etc.
6. If cost effective (exceeds price performance of current lithium ion), take over the world.
Almost everything we hear about in battery tech is in step 1 or 2...moving beyond those is incredibly challenging.
It's easy to lose sight of what a high bar lithium batteries have set across a number of variables such as safety, energy density, cycles, cost, etc.
1. Proof of concept.
2. Lab viability.
3. Real world testing (variety of operating environments). Safety testing etc.
4. Production.
5. Scale production, source materials, etc.
6. If cost effective (exceeds price performance of current lithium ion), take over the world.
Almost everything we hear about in battery tech is in step 1 or 2...moving beyond those is incredibly challenging.
It's easy to lose sight of what a high bar lithium batteries have set across a number of variables such as safety, energy density, cycles, cost, etc.
AidosKynee 1 points 3h ago
What you're describing is the concept of Technology Readiness Level:
1. Basic principles observed.
2 Technology concept formulated.
3 Experimental proof of concept.
4 Technology validated in lab.
5 Technology validated in relevant environment.
6 Technology demonstrated in relevant environment.
7 System prototype demonstration in operational environment.
8 System complete and qualified.
9 Actual system proven in operational environment.
This paper would be a TRL 3. Most literature goes up to TRL 5, at best.
1. Basic principles observed.
2 Technology concept formulated.
3 Experimental proof of concept.
4 Technology validated in lab.
5 Technology validated in relevant environment.
6 Technology demonstrated in relevant environment.
7 System prototype demonstration in operational environment.
8 System complete and qualified.
9 Actual system proven in operational environment.
This paper would be a TRL 3. Most literature goes up to TRL 5, at best.
idhtftc 2 points 21h ago
I'd like to see you try, to hold my breath.
Lillitnotreal 1 points 3h ago
>This is, explicitly, a proof of concept.
Most important thing to remember when you see this stuff, is that it's usually this and nothing more.
Most important thing to remember when you see this stuff, is that it's usually this and nothing more.
IseereydarReturns 46 points 1d ago
I don't need ELI5, but I do need ELINGL. Explain like I'm not Geordi LaForge.
timmeh87 25 points 1d ago
Air batteries are cool. They can use oxygen in the air so they get half their chemicals "for free" as long as there is fresh air. So the density could be about twice as much. Also not many are rechargeable. Batteries with liquid are common but have problems that could be solved by a solid battery.
This solid rechargeable air battery uses the same proton membrane from hydrogen fuel cells. Its at the demo stage and only lasts a few cycles. The discharge efficiency at 100 times the standard rate is pretty good, that is a very high rate.
One caveat is that it needs water to recharge, so it could not recharge well in dry air. The researchers do not seem to address this at all
This solid rechargeable air battery uses the same proton membrane from hydrogen fuel cells. Its at the demo stage and only lasts a few cycles. The discharge efficiency at 100 times the standard rate is pretty good, that is a very high rate.
One caveat is that it needs water to recharge, so it could not recharge well in dry air. The researchers do not seem to address this at all
MrPurpleHaze 4 points 23h ago
Would exposure to a higher relative humidity assist with the water requirement?
anotherusercolin 4 points 1d ago
You see, we're carbon-based life forms, but we've gone too far with it.
AuspiciousSnowflake 25 points 1d ago
This is good progress in battery tech but this is a far off from being practical. 78% capacity after 30 cycles despite its other improvements. Dendrite formation is an issue in metal electrode batteries and if this can be made more durable than it’s at least a step. For now this is a lab curiosity
yukon-flower 4 points 1d ago
If this works at scale, that’s wonderful! But we need to stop extracting carbon from the ground, as a priority, in order to live in a carbon-free society and not burn up first.
Pilot0350 0 points 17h ago
Does carbon free mean devoid of life because all life is carbon-based sooooo...
[deleted] -6 points 1d ago
[deleted]
HecticHermes 1 points 1d ago
A carbon free so society would be an inorganic society
Dannysmartful 1 points 1d ago
Forget mandatory obsolescence.
Everybody is gonna need to have better tools in the next 10-12 years to reach carbon zero world wide. . .
Everybody is gonna need to have better tools in the next 10-12 years to reach carbon zero world wide. . .
This nonprofit website is run by volunteers.
Please contribute if you can. Thank you!
Our mission is to provide everyone with access to large-
scale community websites for the good of humanity.
Without ads, without tracking, without greed.
scale community websites for the good of humanity.
Without ads, without tracking, without greed.
©2023 HumbleCat Inc • HumbleCat is a 501(c)3 nonprofit based in Michigan, USA.