Starbucks Baristas: The daily grind
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venti sized rant: I might get fired because my autism is seen as "having an attitude" (self.starbucksbaristas)
submitted by boy_linda
I (25 ftm) am on the autism spectrum and it's gotten me into trouble several times since I started working for the siren, because my frankness comes across as "having an attitude" to neurotypical coworkers (esp management), as I'm considered "high-functioning" for being good at masking for long durations.
A couple weeks ago I got approved for top surgery (yay) after a year of appeals and paperwork, which is the only reason I started working at starbucks anyways. I've been picking up extra hours, getting better at sequencing and specific tasks to better benefit my team, and generally doing very well at the technical parts of my job. Despite being short-staffed, our manager goes on vacation for weeks at a time.
Today the regional and district managers came to our store to do an evaluation. One of the regional managers (didn't know it) had placed a mobile order, and reached over the counter to take it, and thinking she was just another customer I asked her not to reach over and instead wave one of us down, since this prevents people from taking the wrong order or, worse, stealing others' orders. I believed I was polite about this. She then informed me who she was and started to "coach" me that we weren't allowed to "coach" customers, and that customers should be allowed to easily access their order and take it when they see it. I again explained to her (politely, I thought) that since I started working here we've been instructed by my SM to do this in order to prevent mixups and theft, and said I failed to see how it was disrespectful or against Starbucks "mission and values" policy to have a rule in place that would in the end help all customers get their correct orders on time. We went back and forth and both of us were getting frustrated until I eventually said "I'm just doing the job the way I've been taught by shifts and store managers, so I believe this is a conversation to be had with [SM] when she gets back from vacation." She then said "I don't think you're ready to have this conversation at this time" and let me get back to work.
what you have to understand about autism is that when we do something for a long time, especially enforcing a (reasonable) rule that your boss tells you to do, it becomes difficult to suddenly change course to a new routine or pattern of doing something, because the way you've been doing and why it is so engrained in your mind that it becomes "just the way it is". So going back and forth with her wasn't to be an authority-defying asshole, but to explain to her that these were the rules put in place by my store's leadership and then back that rule up with lived examples/experiences working behind the counter.
The dm then pulled me aside and told me I wasn't living up to starbucks values because I wasn't being flexible or "considering others' perspectives" and "not taking ownership for my actions". I told her I wasn't going to apologize for doing exactly what my SM and SSVs have told me to do since my training, and that I don't think it's rude or anti-customer to politely ask that they wait for an employee to hand them their order, and that they are more than welcome to wave any one of us down for assistance. When she said it wasn't a big deal if orders got lost and that we can just remake them, I then reminded her that it further increases wait times, which is what management was also coaching employees on reducing today, and that it's unfair to punish us for taking preventative measures that deliver better customer service. She then said she would be talking to my SM about me in order to "discuss what measures to take to make [me] accountable". Accountable for what, I don't know, but in the way she said it I'm worried about getting fired, losing my insurance and, therefore, not being able to get top surgery. My SM knows I have autism and knows why I think the way I do, because we've had to sit down and compromise several times, but idk if me getting fired would constitute discrimination on the basis of disability, if I should file a report, if filing a report would even do anything, etc.
edit: I'm not really asking for neurotypical opinions here so unless you also struggle with this, please save your time
A couple weeks ago I got approved for top surgery (yay) after a year of appeals and paperwork, which is the only reason I started working at starbucks anyways. I've been picking up extra hours, getting better at sequencing and specific tasks to better benefit my team, and generally doing very well at the technical parts of my job. Despite being short-staffed, our manager goes on vacation for weeks at a time.
Today the regional and district managers came to our store to do an evaluation. One of the regional managers (didn't know it) had placed a mobile order, and reached over the counter to take it, and thinking she was just another customer I asked her not to reach over and instead wave one of us down, since this prevents people from taking the wrong order or, worse, stealing others' orders. I believed I was polite about this. She then informed me who she was and started to "coach" me that we weren't allowed to "coach" customers, and that customers should be allowed to easily access their order and take it when they see it. I again explained to her (politely, I thought) that since I started working here we've been instructed by my SM to do this in order to prevent mixups and theft, and said I failed to see how it was disrespectful or against Starbucks "mission and values" policy to have a rule in place that would in the end help all customers get their correct orders on time. We went back and forth and both of us were getting frustrated until I eventually said "I'm just doing the job the way I've been taught by shifts and store managers, so I believe this is a conversation to be had with [SM] when she gets back from vacation." She then said "I don't think you're ready to have this conversation at this time" and let me get back to work.
what you have to understand about autism is that when we do something for a long time, especially enforcing a (reasonable) rule that your boss tells you to do, it becomes difficult to suddenly change course to a new routine or pattern of doing something, because the way you've been doing and why it is so engrained in your mind that it becomes "just the way it is". So going back and forth with her wasn't to be an authority-defying asshole, but to explain to her that these were the rules put in place by my store's leadership and then back that rule up with lived examples/experiences working behind the counter.
The dm then pulled me aside and told me I wasn't living up to starbucks values because I wasn't being flexible or "considering others' perspectives" and "not taking ownership for my actions". I told her I wasn't going to apologize for doing exactly what my SM and SSVs have told me to do since my training, and that I don't think it's rude or anti-customer to politely ask that they wait for an employee to hand them their order, and that they are more than welcome to wave any one of us down for assistance. When she said it wasn't a big deal if orders got lost and that we can just remake them, I then reminded her that it further increases wait times, which is what management was also coaching employees on reducing today, and that it's unfair to punish us for taking preventative measures that deliver better customer service. She then said she would be talking to my SM about me in order to "discuss what measures to take to make [me] accountable". Accountable for what, I don't know, but in the way she said it I'm worried about getting fired, losing my insurance and, therefore, not being able to get top surgery. My SM knows I have autism and knows why I think the way I do, because we've had to sit down and compromise several times, but idk if me getting fired would constitute discrimination on the basis of disability, if I should file a report, if filing a report would even do anything, etc.
edit: I'm not really asking for neurotypical opinions here so unless you also struggle with this, please save your time
saudade_sleep_repeat 147 points 7m ago
can confirm masking is exhausting. *“thank you, i will keep that in mind”* is my go-to response for interactions such as this. they feel heard, and i can get on with my business without having to go around and around with them.
boy_linda [OP] 93 points 7m ago
downloading this phrase into my windows 98 brain rn, tysm!!!!!
ConsequenceOk2590 6 points 7m ago
I would As Soon As Possible, contact your manager and let them know that an interaction occurred between the DM and a regional manager and that you would like to sit down with your SM to discuss it. Then call Partner Resources to discuss wether or not you can be written up or if it is a fireable offense, make sure to note you have ASD, that your manager knows, but they were not there. And that the DM and Regional manager were not aware of your ASD
TheNobleMoth 4 points 7m ago
Stealing this metaphor, thank you!
toasterstrudelboy 23 points 7m ago
Also, "what sort of phrasing do you think is appropriate?" Or something to that effect is great too because you look like you're taking initiative in changing when really you're just asking for the script they want so you can just regurgitate that in the future.
naadzzz 90 points 7m ago
this sounds so frustrating to go through i’m sorry it happened, but honestly man when it comes to the regional manager it’s better to just apologize and say whatever they want to hear to get them off your ass and you off their radar. bc at the end of the day your job is on the line and you’ll probs won’t have to deal with them for a long time (i’ve never even met my regional manager and i’ve worked here for almost 4 years) 😳
boy_linda [OP] 52 points 7m ago
You're right, and I wish I wasn't so caught up in the moment of wanting to explain myself and my SM's reasoning the way it was explained to me and could have instead blown it off. I'm mainly frustrated that Starbucks claims they're open to constructive ideas because "we're all partners", then throw us under the bus when we express what things look like on the sales floor.
anich4 6 points 7m ago
I tended to “grey rock” my superiors with “okay” “understood” etc. as to not engage or “defy authority.” Then I got reprimanded for that too
TheNobleMoth 3 points 7m ago
It's the worst, because you were right. And the more you try to explain it, the more the higher ups will see it as defiance. Sorry that happened to you, OP. I hope you get your surgery and can find a job that's better suited to you and makes you happier in the future.
BigDillLadyPickle 52 points 7m ago
Ueah that really sucks dude! Tbh they probably had no clue you have autism because you appear high functioning. So they don't know function in a different way. But your Rm is a higher on the chain than you supervisors and Sm so did have the right to correct you on actual store policy. Next time just say oh I apologise that's just how I was trained by my supervisors and I'm but I will be sure to do what you taught me for now on.
Blocked_ID 30 points 7m ago
I mean— you argued with a regional director 😬
boy_linda [OP] 55 points 7m ago
Starbucks encourages coaching from all levels until it comes from the bottom of the company. I was not arguing with a regional manager, I was explaining why I was doing what I was doing based on what I knew since I started because it's what my SM and SSVs have taught me and done themselves. It gets exhausting being accused of being accusatory when I'm simply expressing what I know. Perhaps it wasn't the right person to take it up with, but in the moment I was trying to communicate my reasoning and the root of the issue, not to antagonize.
JManKit 28 points 7m ago
Yeah I get that but, and this is the part that trips up a lot of neurodivergent folks, people sometimes don't mean what they say. This happens even more frequently in a work environment and then doubly so with higher ups because their egos mean a lot to them
When they're the boss, they want to be right. Even if they're wrong, they want to be right. Sometimes, *especially* when they're wrong they want to be right because then it'd be embarrassing for them
I don't know if you're going to get fired but for future reference, defer to higher ups if they seem to be taking a stand and then circle back with lower level managers afterwards for clarification. For example, the exchange could've gone like this:
You: \*sees random person reach over and grab an order\* Oh! You can just ask one of us to grab your drink for you next time. Cuts down on the chances of the wrong drink being taken y'know?
Regional Manager: This is actually my drink that I ordered and I'm the regional manager and I believe customers should be allowed to blah blah blah
You: Ah! Okay, thank you for explaining that to me :)
\*later on\*
You: \*to your SM\* So just checking but RM said we're supposed to let ppl grab their own drinks now; are we doing that going forward?
SM: Uh, well customer satisfaction is really important so... let's just try to make sure we're handing it directly to the customer so they get the right drink okay?
You: Okay!
Is this asinine? Yeah but unfortunately also necessary. When I was a barista, the owner of the cafe would randomly show up, create a bunch of work, tell us to do things differently than we'd been taught and then just disappear. We'd clean up her mess and then go to the manager to check if we were supposed to change our methods. She'd say to keep doing it normal and she'd get back to us and most of the time she would come back and say to just disregard what the owner said
It sounds like this might be harder for you to learn as you're a strict rules kind of person which is helpful in some circumstances but not so much when you're dealing with a touchy boss person. I highly doubt your SM actually wants it to be a free for all when it comes to picking up drinks so the RM was likely just trying to save face after getting "embarrassed" and the DM was just trying to stay on the RM's good side
If your insurance and therefore your top surgery is at risk, I'd strongly advise you to consider a full apology. Don't even bring up 'This was how I was taught to do it,' just a full 'I absolutely got stuck on the rules and didn't realize how I sounded. I genuinely am sorry and I'll aim to do better in the future' or whatever. There's an unfortunate amount of ass that you have to kiss in this world so good luck to you :(
When they're the boss, they want to be right. Even if they're wrong, they want to be right. Sometimes, *especially* when they're wrong they want to be right because then it'd be embarrassing for them
I don't know if you're going to get fired but for future reference, defer to higher ups if they seem to be taking a stand and then circle back with lower level managers afterwards for clarification. For example, the exchange could've gone like this:
You: \*sees random person reach over and grab an order\* Oh! You can just ask one of us to grab your drink for you next time. Cuts down on the chances of the wrong drink being taken y'know?
Regional Manager: This is actually my drink that I ordered and I'm the regional manager and I believe customers should be allowed to blah blah blah
You: Ah! Okay, thank you for explaining that to me :)
\*later on\*
You: \*to your SM\* So just checking but RM said we're supposed to let ppl grab their own drinks now; are we doing that going forward?
SM: Uh, well customer satisfaction is really important so... let's just try to make sure we're handing it directly to the customer so they get the right drink okay?
You: Okay!
Is this asinine? Yeah but unfortunately also necessary. When I was a barista, the owner of the cafe would randomly show up, create a bunch of work, tell us to do things differently than we'd been taught and then just disappear. We'd clean up her mess and then go to the manager to check if we were supposed to change our methods. She'd say to keep doing it normal and she'd get back to us and most of the time she would come back and say to just disregard what the owner said
It sounds like this might be harder for you to learn as you're a strict rules kind of person which is helpful in some circumstances but not so much when you're dealing with a touchy boss person. I highly doubt your SM actually wants it to be a free for all when it comes to picking up drinks so the RM was likely just trying to save face after getting "embarrassed" and the DM was just trying to stay on the RM's good side
If your insurance and therefore your top surgery is at risk, I'd strongly advise you to consider a full apology. Don't even bring up 'This was how I was taught to do it,' just a full 'I absolutely got stuck on the rules and didn't realize how I sounded. I genuinely am sorry and I'll aim to do better in the future' or whatever. There's an unfortunate amount of ass that you have to kiss in this world so good luck to you :(
Blocked_ID 13 points 7m ago
You said there was back and forth to the point where they were visibly frustrated; so it sounds like you stood your ground, with someone who it was absolutely inappropriate for you to do so.
This was your boss’ boss’ boss: you should have apologized for not meeting/being aware of standard and explained that this was how you were instructed to handoff mobiles by store management and left it at that, not argued your opinion on whether or not your store’s procedure met company standards and values with an RD. Regardless of whether you end up getting separated over this, I don’t think the people telling you you did nothing wrong are doing you any favors.
I say all of this as someone who is decidedly not neurotypical and needed to hear this myself at one point in time.
This was your boss’ boss’ boss: you should have apologized for not meeting/being aware of standard and explained that this was how you were instructed to handoff mobiles by store management and left it at that, not argued your opinion on whether or not your store’s procedure met company standards and values with an RD. Regardless of whether you end up getting separated over this, I don’t think the people telling you you did nothing wrong are doing you any favors.
I say all of this as someone who is decidedly not neurotypical and needed to hear this myself at one point in time.
Last_Ant_525 10 points 7m ago
Dude, they were explaining themselves, not arguing. There is a decided difference. If they get fired over this, it is discrimination. The RM was in the wrong. Hopefully, the manager will do their job correctly and back up the op.
Blocked_ID 3 points 7m ago
If you read OP’s post closely you can clearly see that they did argue about whether or not the store’s handoff policy met the company’s mission and values
“I said that I failed to see how..”
“I said that I failed to see how..”
uwumoment 25 points 7m ago
you should be able to talk to higher ups without fear of losing your job. this kind of fear just proves how much of a toxic workplace environment starbucks is cause everyone is just scared of the higher ups
Chelsea_Kias 27 points 7m ago
I sometimes work with autism kids and guys, it's not as simple a solution as you say. I think Op is correct that for autism individuals, it can be hard/impossible to stray from set rules/routines.
sammieduck69420 8 points 7m ago
also… OP is just correct in the fact that a DISTRICT MANAGER should not be reaching over the handoff plane? if anything, as a shift if i saw my team letting customers grab things and reach over, i’d rather they proactively keep possible health violations out of the prep area/ employees only area. i’ve had a customer almost ruin our ipad after knocking a full half n half thing on it reaching for straws
but thank you starbucks for seeing anything pointed out as immediate criticism and absolute hate towards the company and anyone involved when… i just wanna improve the experience *for everyone*
but thank you starbucks for seeing anything pointed out as immediate criticism and absolute hate towards the company and anyone involved when… i just wanna improve the experience *for everyone*
boy_linda [OP] 4 points 7m ago
It was the regional manager who did it, she then sent the dm to have a "chat" with me
jillybrews226 5 points 7m ago
Thank you ☺️
selkieflying 23 points 7m ago
Oh maaaan I’m autistic too and that situation would’ve KILLED me. Obviously, the Correct Thing to Do would’ve been to briefly explain your actions but then agree with the dm in the moment (and go back to what you were told the second she left lol. Most dms have no clue how it is on the floor). But like, I completely understand your reaction and I’d probably have reacted similar. I’d say now your best bet is to proactively apologize to your SM and explain that it won’t happen again. Hopefully they’ll understand.
TheNobleMoth 5 points 7m ago
Correct Thing To Do ™️ I feel this phase so hard
KnoxxHarrington 18 points 7m ago
Couple of management shills in here today.
IcyColdBrew 2 points 7m ago
Yeah, so many bootlickers in here. Management should fear the workers, not the other way around. This is why we have the governments and the World we have.
suchawarrior 16 points 7m ago
From one autistic person to another- agree with everything your manager says and go back to doing what actually makes sense. Being a manager makes a lot of people go on a weird power trip where they can’t stand lower levels engaging with them because they think they’re being questioned. Think of it as if you’ve been hired to play a cog in the machine that satisfies these people’s egos. It sucks, but at least you can eat
Spalding4u 13 points 7m ago
I have BPD (M40s) and only have ever recently been accused of possibly being on the autistic spectrum, and I come across the same way. I see no fault in your story. I just see an entitled asshole....and these are the stories of my life. There's nothing wrong with showing some deference to a superior, but a superior should not blame a subordinate for conducting themselves in exactly the way they've been trained-by a superior.
#YOU DID NOTHING WRONG
Deep_Mission_4998 -9 points 7m ago
“Accused” ?
Spalding4u 6 points 7m ago
Yes, not sure how else to put that. All my symptoms fall under Borderline Personality Disorder, so to say I fit on the autism spectrum doesn't mesh to me, but I do see the world and react, different than most so, I sort of understand, but it seems to only apply to assholes. Considerate people I rarely have issues with.
Malachite_Migranes 11 points 7m ago
I’ve been there. I’ve had several encounters with my managers or boss where they accuse me of back talking and being sassy with them. I ask a lot of questions like “why do you do it that way?” “Why not do this?” “Wouldn’t it be better if…?” And I am straight forward about how I feel or think about a situation. I’m honestly surprised I haven’t been fired yet based on how upset people get at me for it.
squeebyjeebies 9 points 7m ago
As a former SSV, you sound like an excellent employee. You learned your job and what rules make your store run most smoothly and you apply them respectfully. Sounds like that manager got their feelings hurt when you didn’t let them walk over you, so I don’t think you need to apologize.
As far as getting fired, I’d be more worried about having your hours cut. It wouldn’t be fair for them to do that, but it’s possible. You should talk to a labor lawyer in your area. Most lawyers are willing to do free consultations about prospective representation, and the sooner you know what to document/keep track of, the better your case will be if/when it comes to that. Don’t tell anyone at your store that you’re prepping for a law suit tho, imo.
As far as getting fired, I’d be more worried about having your hours cut. It wouldn’t be fair for them to do that, but it’s possible. You should talk to a labor lawyer in your area. Most lawyers are willing to do free consultations about prospective representation, and the sooner you know what to document/keep track of, the better your case will be if/when it comes to that. Don’t tell anyone at your store that you’re prepping for a law suit tho, imo.
long-pit 7 points 7m ago
from everything i can glean from a short google search, if you live in the US, your rights and job are protected by the americans with disabilities act of 1990, if you’ve disclosed your disability to your employer, which it sounds like you have. corporations rely on workers to not advocate for their rights, it’s how they get away with illegal discrimination and employment practices. if they put pressure on you, tell them you’re contacting the ACLU (even if you aren’t, it scares the shit out of them). good luck with the top surgery.
Allopathological 3 points 7m ago
It isn’t illegal to fire someone that doesn’t gel with the team or can’t handle on-the-fly correction.
If they fired him *because he’s autistic* that’s illegal.
Per the ADA disabled employees must still be able meet the expectations set forth for non-disabled employees with reasonable accommodations. If he can’t talk to customers or follow directions from his supervisors then he isn’t meeting expectations for the average Starbucks employee and can be fired. The “reasonable accommodations” bit is debatable. If you say “well don’t let him interact with customers or minimize it” Starbucks could argue it is unreasonable to hire someone for a customer service job but then not allow them to serve the customers. To avoid a debate/lawsuit they would most likely instead reprimand him to put a disciplinary action in his file (if there aren’t any already) about him being rude, and then fire him with just cause for failure to meet disciplinary goals when he is eventually perceived as rude again. If he appeals or sues they will say “look we gave him a warning and a correction plan and he failed to meet it that’s why we fired him”
Or even worse, if he is in a state with at-will employment he can just be fired for no reason no questions asked.
Workers have very few rights in the US
If they fired him *because he’s autistic* that’s illegal.
Per the ADA disabled employees must still be able meet the expectations set forth for non-disabled employees with reasonable accommodations. If he can’t talk to customers or follow directions from his supervisors then he isn’t meeting expectations for the average Starbucks employee and can be fired. The “reasonable accommodations” bit is debatable. If you say “well don’t let him interact with customers or minimize it” Starbucks could argue it is unreasonable to hire someone for a customer service job but then not allow them to serve the customers. To avoid a debate/lawsuit they would most likely instead reprimand him to put a disciplinary action in his file (if there aren’t any already) about him being rude, and then fire him with just cause for failure to meet disciplinary goals when he is eventually perceived as rude again. If he appeals or sues they will say “look we gave him a warning and a correction plan and he failed to meet it that’s why we fired him”
Or even worse, if he is in a state with at-will employment he can just be fired for no reason no questions asked.
Workers have very few rights in the US
No_Indication_5205 3 points 7m ago
Autistic brains operate in a different way, a natural response for an autistic person is different from an allistic individuals. Just because an allistic person doesn't have a grasp on this doesn't mean its grounds to say that the autistic person doesn't "vibe" with the team. If after they speak to the SM and they continue to take action against the OP rather than approaching it with kindness and the realization that there was a misunderstanding on both parts and missing information on their own part then yes... it could be argued as discrimination to go forward with termination or corrective action.
Starbucks takes the approach of verbal warning/coaching, then if nothing is reached they then go forward with formal warning #1, formal warning (paper warning/notice) (possibly final warning/paper warning/notice) #2 and then going forward with whatever other actions/termination.
Starbucks needs to watch themselves considering it seems they've been dropping a lot of disabled partners without seemingly just cause. Surprised theres no mass lawsuit as of yet.
Starbucks takes the approach of verbal warning/coaching, then if nothing is reached they then go forward with formal warning #1, formal warning (paper warning/notice) (possibly final warning/paper warning/notice) #2 and then going forward with whatever other actions/termination.
Starbucks needs to watch themselves considering it seems they've been dropping a lot of disabled partners without seemingly just cause. Surprised theres no mass lawsuit as of yet.
Allopathological 1 points 7m ago
You aren’t entitled to kindness from your employer. Either way, they are hoping to avoid any debate by getting ready to make a paper trail of “poor performance” to fire him with if they are planning corrective actions.
It’s a relatively standard caveat to disability employment law that all employees be held to the same standard for performance. That is, a disabled employee can be fired if they can’t do their job effectively with reasonable accommodation even if this is due to the disability. Arguing with your boss and being unable to follow direction or interact positively with customers are both examples of not being able to meet the standard performance for a job.
People get fired for pissing off their bosses and simple “misunderstandings” all the time. If an employee can’t be trusted to follow directions or commands then that is a fireable offense even if they’re autistic.
It’s exceedingly hard to prove wrongful termination in the US. Particularly in at will states where “I don’t like your attitude” is a valid legal reason to fire someone.
Again I don’t like it but that’s the reality we live with. Also the reason no major lawsuits are pending for this against Starbucks.
It’s a relatively standard caveat to disability employment law that all employees be held to the same standard for performance. That is, a disabled employee can be fired if they can’t do their job effectively with reasonable accommodation even if this is due to the disability. Arguing with your boss and being unable to follow direction or interact positively with customers are both examples of not being able to meet the standard performance for a job.
People get fired for pissing off their bosses and simple “misunderstandings” all the time. If an employee can’t be trusted to follow directions or commands then that is a fireable offense even if they’re autistic.
It’s exceedingly hard to prove wrongful termination in the US. Particularly in at will states where “I don’t like your attitude” is a valid legal reason to fire someone.
Again I don’t like it but that’s the reality we live with. Also the reason no major lawsuits are pending for this against Starbucks.
No_Indication_5205 1 points 7m ago
I just highly doubt that a regional director would go forward with a termination or push for one without at the bare minimum speaking with the SM. If the SM is transparent about the employee being Autistic and informed on how these conversations can seem between colleagues. A managers job is to support their partners, sohopefully thats what will be happening in this case.
The process to terminate someone with starbucks is actually very lengthy and needs multiple levels of approval before its completed. Regardless of the state laws.
The process to terminate someone with starbucks is actually very lengthy and needs multiple levels of approval before its completed. Regardless of the state laws.
[deleted] 1 points 7m ago
[deleted]
Praxlyn 7 points 7m ago
You kept going back & forth with a regional manager.. yeah it doesn’t look good for you. It’s the world we live in but if a corporate officer wants to insist that they’re right in certain situations you’re just meant to shut up & agree. You can always discuss amongst your store staff once they’re gone.
foxfenelle 6 points 7m ago
Oh wow look at the neurotypical people in the comments....
I know exactly where you're coming from! You wanna justify yourself cause you don't feel like you're doing anything wrong
If worse comes to worse .... Perhaps you can use your autism as an excuse?
I've been accused of throwing fits before 😩 cause I'll try to say I don't want to do drive through
I know exactly where you're coming from! You wanna justify yourself cause you don't feel like you're doing anything wrong
If worse comes to worse .... Perhaps you can use your autism as an excuse?
I've been accused of throwing fits before 😩 cause I'll try to say I don't want to do drive through
Hazel_is_Trans 4 points 7m ago
If you have your disability on file they can’t fire you for being autistic. They probably going to do a warning or a write up… if they do fire you you can claim discrimination against staebiee…
Traditional-Emu-1403 4 points 7m ago
That’s a tough situation, rigidity can be tough to deal with. They are correct and you argued with someone higher up and it wasn’t appropriate. Being flexible is part of the job, but if it’s not part of the job you can meet… maybe contact HR so it’s documented that you have a disability preventing you from meeting that.
I did the same when I started.
I did the same when I started.
Deep_Mission_4998 4 points 7m ago
Hi there I relate! Sounds like a difficult situation. I feel customers may find me argumentative bc I ask a lot of questions especially when their drink is wrong. When really I’m just trying to understand.
However i never go out of my way to tell a customer to do something a certain way, unless they ask me. It just prevents situations like this.
It’s also never a good idea to go back and forth with a higher up. I would have backed down immediately. I understand you were trying to explain your reasoning but it seems it affected the DM enough to say something about it. They probably felt you were trying to imply “my way is right, yours is wrong”. Perhaps you could send an apology via email and let them know you have asd, and I would explain that to the manager as well if you felt comfortable
However i never go out of my way to tell a customer to do something a certain way, unless they ask me. It just prevents situations like this.
It’s also never a good idea to go back and forth with a higher up. I would have backed down immediately. I understand you were trying to explain your reasoning but it seems it affected the DM enough to say something about it. They probably felt you were trying to imply “my way is right, yours is wrong”. Perhaps you could send an apology via email and let them know you have asd, and I would explain that to the manager as well if you felt comfortable
claretamazon 3 points 7m ago
I'm bipolar and do the same thing. People say to basically let them ride their high horses when it comes to upper management but I disagree with it. They're people that take a shit every morning just like us, and they're usually wrong because they have no clue what happens at the store level since they only see numbers on a paper. I would love to coach them on what actually happens and throw them behind a bar to be stared at and berated by customers.
jjd022980 2 points 7m ago
Coming from a special education teacher that teaches autistic students if they fire you you have the right to sue them under the Ada act! Since with autism you can be over stimulated your emotions will be at a high! I deal with behaviors on a daily basis so if it comes to that and hopefully if they are smart and it won’t because of the repercussions are major against them as the ADA act protects you and your rights!
Boundtoloveyou 2 points 7m ago
That really sucks, a DM should know better. I don't know if you have the energy or even feel comfortable doing so, but you are always allowed to call them, or *their* boss to report the situation and how it created a hostile work environment. You were given a set of rules and they came into the store, believed that they were above them, and then tried to blame *you* for "not owning your actions." That is definitely reportable behavior and if you have access or can get access to your RMs phone number that's exactly what they are there for.
I have definitely called my DM to explain how certain things they said to some baristas in my store that made sense in the moment were actually discrimination and definitely not okay. I told my SM what I was doing ahead of time, and he had my back and even added that time to my punch card since it was work related, you SM might be willing to do the same for you, I'm not sure if there's a specific policy for it or if it's discretionary.
Of course it's not your job to coach inclusion with your boss's boss's boss's boss and totally understandable if you don't feel secure doing so. And if that's too big a lift for your situation, as others have said: PCC is always a great option for CYA accommodation claims. You need rules to be well communicated, consistent, and constantly applied. This is reasonable accommodation because that should be the default anyway, otherwise they aren't rules, they're whims. PCC is a good way to get a validating paper trail that can protect you.
I have definitely called my DM to explain how certain things they said to some baristas in my store that made sense in the moment were actually discrimination and definitely not okay. I told my SM what I was doing ahead of time, and he had my back and even added that time to my punch card since it was work related, you SM might be willing to do the same for you, I'm not sure if there's a specific policy for it or if it's discretionary.
Of course it's not your job to coach inclusion with your boss's boss's boss's boss and totally understandable if you don't feel secure doing so. And if that's too big a lift for your situation, as others have said: PCC is always a great option for CYA accommodation claims. You need rules to be well communicated, consistent, and constantly applied. This is reasonable accommodation because that should be the default anyway, otherwise they aren't rules, they're whims. PCC is a good way to get a validating paper trail that can protect you.
tarotbug 2 points 7m ago
If you’re in America, and you have a diagnosis/paperwork/accommodations you can 100% quote the ADA and threaten a disability discrimination lawsuit if the harassing behavior continues. You don’t have to take their ableist shit, you’re worth more than that.
CyzophyTacos733 2 points 7m ago
I understand how you feel, I am not diagnosed with autism, but I do have OCD and panic disorder and I recently got documented coaching for behavioral issues aswell... its frustrating having to someone make you feel bad for something that they really should have more understanding about.
I'm sorry you had to deal with that, I hope things get better soon and that you don't lose your job over literally listening to you sm/ ssv's .-.
I'm sorry you had to deal with that, I hope things get better soon and that you don't lose your job over literally listening to you sm/ ssv's .-.
anich4 2 points 7m ago
Tbh stuff like this is why I left Sbux. I was an SSV in the same boat as you. I could show ACTUAL STARBUCKS DOCUMENTATION and my SM and DM would be like “ok, but did you make the moment right?” Like ma’am you both know I’m autistic and have no control over my tears if I’m yelled at. How was I supposed to know that in this specific instance it was ok to break the rules when I have been heavily reprimanded for breaking the rules in a seemingly similar incident?
swollemolle 2 points 7m ago
These are the rules I want you to enforce. But not on me! Shame on you! /s
OP, I applaud you for standing up for yourself. And speaking as both a customer and a barista, I can tell you it’s FUCKING annoying when I order ahead, show up to pickup my order, only to realize that it’s been stolen. Now I have to wait an extra 5-20 mins (if you think I’m lying, go to the store closest to me. They’re fucking slow as molasses) for a remake. You didn’t do anything wrong, you were advocating for your customers. And your management team was too proud to admit you were right. They expected you to respect their privilege and let them do as they please. You hurt their ego. Now you must pay.
OP, I applaud you for standing up for yourself. And speaking as both a customer and a barista, I can tell you it’s FUCKING annoying when I order ahead, show up to pickup my order, only to realize that it’s been stolen. Now I have to wait an extra 5-20 mins (if you think I’m lying, go to the store closest to me. They’re fucking slow as molasses) for a remake. You didn’t do anything wrong, you were advocating for your customers. And your management team was too proud to admit you were right. They expected you to respect their privilege and let them do as they please. You hurt their ego. Now you must pay.
jazzysoranio 2 points 7m ago
It sounds like your autism isn’t even the problem. The district manager just got their feelings hurt. And Starbucks corporate STILL has not fixed the problem that is CUSTOMERS ARE STILL ABLE TO REACH OVER THE COUNTERS and touch everything. What other fast food restaurants make it so that the customers have access to the food prep areas and can just reach over and contaminate whatever they want? You can’t just reach over the counter at McDonalds and stick your dirty hands in the chicken nuggets because they don’t design stores that way. The only places I can think of is small independent coffee shops, not big chains with hundreds of daily customers.
I hope you don’t get fired. I do the same thing you do and I’m not even autistic. But if you do get fired I hope you’re able to find somewhere better to work. Starbucks hasn’t known what it wants for years. They say they want individuality and diversity and then they expect everyone to be robots. But then they encourage you to be creative until you actually try it then they tell you to stop. They tell you the rules and boundaries but then get upset when you actually follow them. They want you to not accept bills larger than $20 but then they say do, but don’t, but sometimes, but also never, unless it’s the time when you do. And it’s like that for everything.
I hope you don’t get fired. I do the same thing you do and I’m not even autistic. But if you do get fired I hope you’re able to find somewhere better to work. Starbucks hasn’t known what it wants for years. They say they want individuality and diversity and then they expect everyone to be robots. But then they encourage you to be creative until you actually try it then they tell you to stop. They tell you the rules and boundaries but then get upset when you actually follow them. They want you to not accept bills larger than $20 but then they say do, but don’t, but sometimes, but also never, unless it’s the time when you do. And it’s like that for everything.
insanityizgood13 2 points 7m ago
Stuff like this is exactly why I left my old job. My old SM at the chain I worked for could not understand why I was so confused when they completely changed the register balancing procedure & opening/closing system. No matter how I tried to explain myself he'd just accuse me of being difficult & getting upset when I was just trying to understand. I hope with an apology they'll keep you on & hopefully you guys can all come to a compromise.
jillybrews226 2 points 7m ago
I feel you, I love rules when there’s a good reason for them and have a hard time when they’re adjusted (especially for no good reason). What the NTs don’t tell you is there is a rule and always an exception to the rule and you’re supposed to just intuit it 🤷🏻♀️
duderancherooni 2 points 7m ago
I totally understand the whole “rules” thing tbh. It’s really hard for me to adjust to different protocol or even slight deviation from said protocol. Something that has helped me is to think about it as though there are alternate rules for different situations. If there are multiple managers, each might have their own rule and I follow one or the other based on who is there.
Aside from that, it’s always better to not try to explain yourself or argue since people in management positions rarely are interested in hearing an explanation and will often just take it as insubordination. Just say, “oops! I’ll do it that way from now on!” And then when your other manager comes back, fill them in and ask how you should proceed. Don’t challenge a manager unless it’s important enough that you are prepared to lose your job over it.
Aside from that, it’s always better to not try to explain yourself or argue since people in management positions rarely are interested in hearing an explanation and will often just take it as insubordination. Just say, “oops! I’ll do it that way from now on!” And then when your other manager comes back, fill them in and ask how you should proceed. Don’t challenge a manager unless it’s important enough that you are prepared to lose your job over it.
Last_Ant_525 2 points 7m ago
This is discrimination. If you are fired, ask them if you are being fired because you are disabled. When they explain things, tell them it's a part of your Autism, and Autism is classified as a mental disability. I know it's not fun to think that we're "mentally disabled" because of the incorrect implication that has on our intelligence. However, referring to your Autism as a disability makes them aware that firing you due to that disability is discrimination, and that places them at risk of a lawsuit. Don't threaten to sue, just educate them about Autism being a disability (an NT classification after all) and what your Autism things are (I can't find the correct phrase, sorry). Hopefully, that will get them to reconsider their actions long enough to get the surgery you need. If they fire you, try to get them to admit it was due to Autism, with witnesses. Then go ahead and sue them.
duderancherooni 7 points 7m ago
That’s not really how that works unfortunately. You can be fired if your disability prevents you from doing your job, even with reasonable accommodations. This would likely boil down to whether or not taking direction and following instructions from a manager is considered a crucial job function, which it is.
SepsSammy 3 points 7m ago
But they’ve demonstrated to this point that they can take direction and follow instructions. This is a miscommunication or lack of “proper” training from the SM. OP was following their training and as someone who has dealt with difficult RM and DM in my time, a lot of them just want to talk AT people and don’t want any kind of response. It’s BS.
duderancherooni 0 points 7m ago
Yes and they would fire anyone who did not follow directions and continued to argue after being given direction. I don’t think it’s right, I’m just saying this wouldn’t make it far as an ADA complaint.
realnewtgeiszler 1 points 7m ago
Super duper fingers crossed for you that the worst they do is a write-up. Once you get top surgery I urge you to get the hell out of there because frankly, your district and regional managers sound like they aren't being flexible in their thinking or hearing you out either! It's a two-way street, this respect they are demanding of you, and if they cannot offer you an ear or a compromise then they cannot offer you anything good. Plus, Starbucks is just so genuinely not a great place for autistic people to work. The monotony is oh-so-sweet but it's overwhelming beyond belief. I know it's, unfortunately, competitive pay and it's not easy to find jobs out there right now, but finding one where at least your higher managers will respect you enough to hear you out without finding it to be some kind of aggression or defiance rather than you providing your perspective on the way you can make your work environment better for you and for customers is possible. Good luck, friend!!
hi-im-madi 1 points 7m ago
i would just say “oh okay, i’m sorry” and then wait until the DM left then continue doing what i normally do
quickthinxallthots 1 points 7m ago
i also have autism. i understand the rigidity when it comes to enforcing rules. buuut when it comes to the RM and DM just apologize and SUBTLY blame SM lol and say "i'll keep this in mind and let the sm know we had this conversation. i apologize and meant no offense, but this was how i was instructed."
i also had a SM that went on vacations allll the time and also told my to my face that i didn't belong at starbucks bc of my autism. (I already reported this to ECC and PCC ... my best advice? DOCUMENT EVERYTHING. RECORD EVERYTHING (if it's not legal don't use it as evidence but in my state its legal and at least you'll have it for personal reference)!!! all of my investigations came back inconclusive. i know what i experienced and i'm 99% positive the DM helped cover up for my SM but whaaaatever this isn't about me).
anyway i really hope this just ends up being a slap on the wrist or at worst a verbal coaching. they can't fire you for being autistic, but they absolutely can and will say this was a coaching moment for not adhering to starbucks mission and values and talking back to a superior and potential customer.
also i have to say i agree with RM and just let customers grab their own drinks... idk if you work at a higher traffic or big city store though but i'm out in the sticks and yeah we have customers take the wrong drink but it's not enough to keep their drinks from them and physically pass it out. plus unless you have someone specifically assigned to hand-off that also affects wait times...
i also had a SM that went on vacations allll the time and also told my to my face that i didn't belong at starbucks bc of my autism. (I already reported this to ECC and PCC ... my best advice? DOCUMENT EVERYTHING. RECORD EVERYTHING (if it's not legal don't use it as evidence but in my state its legal and at least you'll have it for personal reference)!!! all of my investigations came back inconclusive. i know what i experienced and i'm 99% positive the DM helped cover up for my SM but whaaaatever this isn't about me).
anyway i really hope this just ends up being a slap on the wrist or at worst a verbal coaching. they can't fire you for being autistic, but they absolutely can and will say this was a coaching moment for not adhering to starbucks mission and values and talking back to a superior and potential customer.
also i have to say i agree with RM and just let customers grab their own drinks... idk if you work at a higher traffic or big city store though but i'm out in the sticks and yeah we have customers take the wrong drink but it's not enough to keep their drinks from them and physically pass it out. plus unless you have someone specifically assigned to hand-off that also affects wait times...
boy_linda [OP] 1 points 7m ago
I'm in a big enough city where it's a regular problem, maybe if it was in a rural area it wouldn't be as big of a deal.
quickthinxallthots 2 points 7m ago
sad. i'm sorry
boy_linda [OP] 1 points 7m ago
it ok fren
Nuggggggggget 1 points 7m ago
Yeah you need to be “coach able” in management eyes. Try not to go back and forth with anyone even customers. Just say “thank you I will keep that in mind” and when they leave go back to doing it the way you’ve always done it.
I don’t think you’ll be fired but it’s still a frustrating experience. And masking for a long time can be very exhausting.
I don’t think you’ll be fired but it’s still a frustrating experience. And masking for a long time can be very exhausting.
leopardsocks 1 points 7m ago
Dude. What. She’s literally wrong. We aren’t allowed to tell customers not to reach over the counter?! Are you freaking kidding me?!? That is str8 up ABSURD. If your SM is a reasonable person, hopefully they will just roll their eyes, because genuinely, WHAT?
Daedalusspacegames 1 points 7m ago
I wish I had helpful advice to give in this case. I was "let go" from Starbucks a couple years ago in very similar circumstances, also high-functioning autistic. My store theoretically had a mask policy at the time (inside the store and on the patio, have to be masked if not actively eating or drinking), but our SM had decided to not press the issue with those unwilling in order to something-something customer service and to avoid conflict.
The thing that got me fired was asking a lady on the patio if she could put on a mask as I went by into the store (wasn't on the clock yet).
She complained to my SM, and because she *happened* to be the only Asian lady on the patio, she wondered if there was racial bias to my asking her. (for the record, until my SM described her to me I couldn't have described the customer beyond "black hair and grey shirt, with an empty iced latte cup"). It didn't matter that I was punctual, a hard worker, and by conventional metrics the best DT person in the store. Got a week of paid leave while they "investigated", then gave me my walking papers.
So I 100% understand your position, and for what it's worth I offer my condolences and support. Best of luck to you
Edit: I wanted to add that while others may not have agreed with this approach, I took the stance of "I don't care if you're Joe Nobody or the President of the United States, if you're a customer I will treat you the same as all other customers, and that includes asking politely for adherence to Starbucks policies". If I'm being respectful and not demanding, then I don't see what the problem is.
The thing that got me fired was asking a lady on the patio if she could put on a mask as I went by into the store (wasn't on the clock yet).
She complained to my SM, and because she *happened* to be the only Asian lady on the patio, she wondered if there was racial bias to my asking her. (for the record, until my SM described her to me I couldn't have described the customer beyond "black hair and grey shirt, with an empty iced latte cup"). It didn't matter that I was punctual, a hard worker, and by conventional metrics the best DT person in the store. Got a week of paid leave while they "investigated", then gave me my walking papers.
So I 100% understand your position, and for what it's worth I offer my condolences and support. Best of luck to you
Edit: I wanted to add that while others may not have agreed with this approach, I took the stance of "I don't care if you're Joe Nobody or the President of the United States, if you're a customer I will treat you the same as all other customers, and that includes asking politely for adherence to Starbucks policies". If I'm being respectful and not demanding, then I don't see what the problem is.
Professor_Sqi 0 points 7m ago
Nah fuck that noise, not read it all yet though. They're a customer at that point, and they get the same treatment. Don't reach over my counter etc
I've had similar, I've answered politely (to me) and I've actually had people berate me or talk to others I work with about my "attitude" while I'm stood here like "I just told you not to do __ please, why does that make me the bad person"
I've had similar, I've answered politely (to me) and I've actually had people berate me or talk to others I work with about my "attitude" while I'm stood here like "I just told you not to do __ please, why does that make me the bad person"
arobynn_hamel -4 points 7m ago
I get that your neurodivergent but at the end of the day you have to do what your told by your superiors in the company. Im a shift and I think half the rules I enforce are ridiculous but its my job to do so. Its that regionals managers job to make sure their stores are running how they want. you can't argue with them about it regardless of why. Your sm has been very generous by sitting down and compromising with you because again, regardless of why, if your arguing with your superiors on store and company policies then they are well within their rights to terminate you.
boy_linda [OP] 1 points 7m ago
I wouldn't consider management scolding me for explaining and getting to the root of the issue (my sm's incorrect instructions to me and my team) as a "favor" but ok
Texastexastexas1 1 points 7m ago
The post is about him telling the coach that he was doing it the way he was taught. The coach should’ve just noted that there was a consistency issue to handle with SM.
KnightlyStars -3 points 7m ago
You should definitely look into the discrimination thing if they end up firing you. Make it public too, blast it everywhere. The thing Sbux values most is PR, and as a fellow autistic, I fully support you and hope it works out!!
leaferiksen -11 points 7m ago
Corporate is well aware that customers accidentally taking/intentionally stealing drinks will cause increased wait times for everyone else. You reminding them of this fact in the manner described comes off as “I’m right, you’re wrong, this is how it should be done.” Bad move when talking to any form of leadership. There’s a time and place for constructive ideas, but you likely have far less experience than your managers and you aren’t schooling them by telling them how you think things should be. Policies are policies for a reason. You may not understand their reasoning/position on this particular issue, but that doesn’t mean the policy is a bad one. They have their reasons. Pick your battles.
boy_linda [OP] 8 points 7m ago
I had no intention of "schooling" them so much as explaining why I did what I did in the way my SM has explained it to me when she told me to start safeguarding the mobile orders, and redirecting them to my SM.
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