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A Proposed Law Would Force Internet Companies to Spy on Their Users for the DEA | The Cooper Davis Act would force tech companies to report suspected drug activity to the government. Experts say it would be a disaster for digital privacy. (gizmodo.com)
submitted 1d ago by chrisdh79
Carifax 165 points 1d ago
Is the federal government going to be paying the internet companies for doing their job for them?
Are they going to train the people in law enforcement techniques?
Are we as consumers going to have an option to opt in or out on this surveillance?
Is this not a warrantless search?
Important questions that need to be considered.
Are they going to train the people in law enforcement techniques?
Are we as consumers going to have an option to opt in or out on this surveillance?
Is this not a warrantless search?
Important questions that need to be considered.
DionysiusRedivivus 53 points 1d ago
Correct me if I’m wrong - My understanding is that AT&T and such get massive contracts from the NSA to collect data through the telecom choke points (under-ocean fiber nodes, etc). IIRC this was discussed during the “we’re only sifting through metadata / overseas metadata perjury. Plus the massive data storage facilities that have been built. Assuming I’m not mixing up programs, this incentivizes the telecoms and data giants to lobby for more contracts spying on Americans. And we know how civil liberties fare in the face of Google, AT&T, ComCast, Google etc agendas.
WayeeCool 25 points 1d ago
The ATT/Verizon fiber hub buildings at the center of major cities across the United States that are actually NSA taps into the nations telecom network. Kinda irresponsible to create such vulnerable points in a network that was designed to be resilient against military attacks, so the buildings are skyscrapers designed to be the only ones standing should cities like New York or Chicago get hit with a nuclear strike.
https://theintercept.com/2016/11/16/the-nsas-spy-hub-in-new-york-hidden-in-plain-sight/
Then there is that NSA datacenter out in the middle of the Utah desert that a decade ago was up to exabytes of data but today due to advances in drive capacity is probably somewhere between the yottabyte to zettabyte scale.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_Data_Center
https://theintercept.com/2016/11/16/the-nsas-spy-hub-in-new-york-hidden-in-plain-sight/
Then there is that NSA datacenter out in the middle of the Utah desert that a decade ago was up to exabytes of data but today due to advances in drive capacity is probably somewhere between the yottabyte to zettabyte scale.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_Data_Center
NotUniqueOrSpecial 14 points 1d ago
hubaloza 12 points 23h ago
Lmao salt lake is also in the middle of the Utah desert, a region doesn't stop being a desert just because someone built a city there.
DNSGeek 2 points 1d ago
Yep. If you see a large building in downtown <cityname> with no windows, that's an NSA tap.
[deleted] 0 points 1d ago
[deleted]
DarkerSavant 2 points 22h ago
Lol not true. Typically a windowless building is designed for easier security such as telecommunications switches, but could be for many other reasons needing security. It’s does not mean NSA has its fingers in it. Also windowless is significantly cheaper for hvac and has greater survival in disasters.
Educational-Ice-319 12 points 1d ago
> Are we as consumers going to have an option to opt in or out on this surveillance?
Hell no. Law Enforcement exceptions litter US data Privacy laws. No chance in hell we’ll have an opt-out option, we probably won’t even get a notice. Its why the US-EU Privacy Shield is currently kaput. *Schrems II* highlighted LE exceptions as a major reason.
> Is this not a warrantless search?
Nope. It’s not a search because law enforcement isn’t the one doing the search. The company is obligated to report what they find.
Hell no. Law Enforcement exceptions litter US data Privacy laws. No chance in hell we’ll have an opt-out option, we probably won’t even get a notice. Its why the US-EU Privacy Shield is currently kaput. *Schrems II* highlighted LE exceptions as a major reason.
> Is this not a warrantless search?
Nope. It’s not a search because law enforcement isn’t the one doing the search. The company is obligated to report what they find.
abstractConceptName 6 points 1d ago
This is so fucked.
The EU has such strong privacy laws, because people like Angela Merkel grew up in Eastern Germany, under the Stasi.
Probably folks are too young here to know what that means, or just have no real exposure to the reality of a Ministry for State Security, but you owe it to yourself to learn a little bit, because these kinds of laws are creating a very strong foundation for a very dystopic future.
https://www.stasi-unterlagen-archiv.de/the-stasi
The EU has such strong privacy laws, because people like Angela Merkel grew up in Eastern Germany, under the Stasi.
Probably folks are too young here to know what that means, or just have no real exposure to the reality of a Ministry for State Security, but you owe it to yourself to learn a little bit, because these kinds of laws are creating a very strong foundation for a very dystopic future.
https://www.stasi-unterlagen-archiv.de/the-stasi
AlbaMcAlba 5 points 1d ago
Not so much in the UK. I was around when the home office were installing sister routers at choke points in a telecoms network. The data is mirrored and relayed somewhere.
abstractConceptName 1 points 23h ago
The UK is not in the EU.
Educational-Ice-319 3 points 1d ago
On the topic of the Stasi, using your comment to pitch *The Lives of Others*. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lives_of_Others.
Berzabu 1 points 23h ago
>The EU has such strong privacy laws, because people like Angela Merkel grew up in Eastern Germany, under the Stasi.
Agreed. But as you go west people tend to forget about that and they're pretty much like "I have nothing to hide"
Agreed. But as you go west people tend to forget about that and they're pretty much like "I have nothing to hide"
abstractConceptName 2 points 23h ago
I fear people will need to learn "the hard way".
gerkletoss 0 points 22h ago
>It’s not a search because law enforcement isn’t the one doing the search.
This isn't how constitutional law works. It is absolutely a search and the government would absolutely be compelling it.
This isn't how constitutional law works. It is absolutely a search and the government would absolutely be compelling it.
Educational-Ice-319 0 points 22h ago
It is not a search. No section of the law empowers the DEA to request anything. It requires the providers to report to the DEA. It is not a search.
Xi_Jing_ping_your_IP 1 points 1d ago
It's gonna be they turn everything over and let the courts decide whether it was serious or not, further clogging our municipalities.
ConfidentPilot1729 1 points 22h ago
I suspect his is a law from Republican anti abortion activist. They want to federally out law the abortion pills and have companies track for them.
qooplmao 42 points 1d ago
\>The Cooper Davis Act might have unintended consequences
I can only assume those consequences are somewhat intended. If the DEA can get "evidence" on every internet user they can then attempt to use it as an additional argument for a warrant that they wouldn't have usually be able to get.
"This jizz emoji actually means drugs coming out of the end of a needle while this eggplant emoji actually means a penis and the kids are all injecting drugs into their penises these days, so can we get a warrant?"
I can only assume those consequences are somewhat intended. If the DEA can get "evidence" on every internet user they can then attempt to use it as an additional argument for a warrant that they wouldn't have usually be able to get.
"This jizz emoji actually means drugs coming out of the end of a needle while this eggplant emoji actually means a penis and the kids are all injecting drugs into their penises these days, so can we get a warrant?"
nzodd 10 points 21h ago
I was opposed to this law at first, but your conjecture that it will allow police to lock up those dirty emoji users once and for all has changed my mind.
qooplmao 1 points 20h ago
To be fair if all it takes is a complete loss of privacy to get those people that end every message with "🤣🤣🤣" then I see it as an acceptable loss.
OkSmile 87 points 1d ago
The DEA has had 50 years for their War on Drugs.
They've lost. Time to break up the band.
They've lost. Time to break up the band.
ultradianfreq 3 points 1d ago
Congress disagrees.
ProbablyABore 27 points 1d ago
And congress is wrong.
ultradianfreq 4 points 1d ago
Yep, obviously
J0HN117 7 points 1d ago
Fuck congress
T1Pimp 23 points 1d ago
War on drugs is so stupid and ineffective.
shponglespore 4 points 19h ago
Don't forget destructive.
xman747x 19 points 1d ago
"The Cooper Davis Act was introduced by Kansas Republican Sen. Roger Marshall and New Hampshire Democrat Sen. Jeanne Shaheen in March and has been under consideration by the Senate Judiciary Committee for weeks. Named after a 16-year-old Kansas boy who died of a fentanyl overdose two years ago, the bipartisan bill, which the committee is scheduled to vote on Thursday, has spurred intense debate. Proponents say it could help address a spiraling public health crisis; critics, meanwhile, see it as a gateway to broad and indiscriminate internet surveillance."
colbymg 13 points 1d ago
Why is a "spy on your own citizen's internet activity" bill named after a kid who died of a fentanyl overdose? Did all the actually-related cases already get used in previous attempts to pass this POS?
gerkletoss 23 points 1d ago
This would clearly constitute an illegal search
Atlein_069 5 points 1d ago
2 years ago, and I would agree.
Educational-Ice-319 -16 points 1d ago
No it wouldn’t. No government entity is searching anything. The platform is monitoring its contents and reporting to the DEA.
gerkletoss 1 points 1d ago
...under government orders
The police can't just hire someone to perform a search for them if their request for a warrant is denied
The police can't just hire someone to perform a search for them if their request for a warrant is denied
Educational-Ice-319 -3 points 1d ago
That is not a search. You do understand that the government ordering an entity to turn over documents is not a search…right? Additionally, you do also know that this kind of provision *already exists* for many industries, including telecomms right?
gerkletoss 1 points 23h ago
https://www.aclu.org/documents/aclu-history-wiretapping-new-kind-search-and-seizure
shponglespore -1 points 19h ago
Sorry, where did you get your law degree from again?
The-Copilot 0 points 9h ago
If the platform is forced to comply then it is still a breach of privacy.
The only reason the NSA was able to use any of the illegally obtained data in the past was that the data was run through a program and no one technically looked at it until it was flagged and the patriot act basically stripped rights away from terrorists which meant they weren't invading someone's privacy because that person no longer had the right to privacy.
This would be a massive overstep and isn't for national security its for law enforcement which are two massively different things.
The only reason the NSA was able to use any of the illegally obtained data in the past was that the data was run through a program and no one technically looked at it until it was flagged and the patriot act basically stripped rights away from terrorists which meant they weren't invading someone's privacy because that person no longer had the right to privacy.
This would be a massive overstep and isn't for national security its for law enforcement which are two massively different things.
shponglespore -1 points 19h ago
> The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, **papers**, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
Are you really gonna argue that "papers" wasn't supposed to include all private correspondence?
Are you really gonna argue that "papers" wasn't supposed to include all private correspondence?
Comfortable_Hyena83 0 points 14h ago
In the US all mail is scanned, thusly “private correspondence” is already being searched and retained by the government. In fact, you can even sign up for a daily email with a picture of what mail you’ll receive that day! Half the time I can partially read the letter enclosed and the government is retaining who & what was sent each time.
To think, back in the day they had to steam it in order for you not to notice them snooping.
Now the internet means less mail and thusly less surveillance for the government.
To think, back in the day they had to steam it in order for you not to notice them snooping.
Now the internet means less mail and thusly less surveillance for the government.
shponglespore 1 points 39m ago
You mean the service you can sign up for where they scan the OUTSIDE of the stuff they're delivering. The part that they have to look at, and which you've consented to have them look at so they can deliver your mail?
Fucking moron.
Fucking moron.
Educational-Ice-319 1 points 18h ago
Read the bill. The bill creates a Duty to Report. It does not empower any requests or searches.
shponglespore 1 points 14h ago
That's worse. You understand how that's worse, right?
When the government isn't allowed to do something, they can't just require someone else to do it for them.
When the government isn't allowed to do something, they can't just require someone else to do it for them.
dudSpudson 24 points 1d ago
Just keep dumping tax dollars into an unwinnable war and invading the privacy of US citizens. Good going america
Ischmetch 5 points 1d ago
Make a fake show of doing something, increase power, and grab more money. It’s a complete win/win for everyone - except for those who are honest or powerless.
OrphanDextro 3 points 1d ago
They winning, they can take your property and sell that shit. They’re winning. They’re just playing by different rules than we were playing by.
Ren_Arcen 1 points 23h ago
It's all about the game. The game is the grift; the grift is the game. The point is to keep the game (grift) going as long as possible, for them that is winning. That is why there are punitive punishments that increase recidivism rather than real rehabilitation. That is why there is no real public mental health care pushes. That is why there is a war on drugs rather than a war on poverty...
It's all about the game...
It's all about the game...
ImaginaryCheetah 33 points 1d ago
we already know that the precursor chemicals to produce fentanyl come from china and india. illegal spying on american emails will do nothing to stem the supply, and only serve to feed the prison complex.
https://www.dea.gov/sites/default/files/2020-03/DEA_GOV_DIR-008-20%20Fentanyl%20Flow%20in%20the%20United%20States_0.pdf
unfortunately for us, strong foreign policy that might actually affect the drug supply is too expensive, and doesn't make money for the prisons
https://www.dea.gov/sites/default/files/2020-03/DEA_GOV_DIR-008-20%20Fentanyl%20Flow%20in%20the%20United%20States_0.pdf
unfortunately for us, strong foreign policy that might actually affect the drug supply is too expensive, and doesn't make money for the prisons
Luci_Noir -17 points 1d ago
You realize that it’s sold and disturbing by people here, right?
Crizbibble 22 points 1d ago
Who cares. If you lock up everyone who is selling drugs in the US today somebody will replace every single one of them tomorrow. Without stopping it at the manufacturer it’s pointless and just a way to lock up poor people who we’ve driven into that position through policies.
crusoe 6 points 1d ago
Lots of poor people in the US who would still sell.
ImaginaryCheetah 6 points 21h ago
yeah, no sh\*t.
in the 50 years the US has been having a "war on drugs", the only two things that have increased are the DEA's budget, and the number of people who die each year from drugs.
50 years of arresting users and low-level sellers has done nothing but fill grave yards and prisons.
all this fentanyl sh\*t stems directly from the opioid epidemic from the 90s, and the US position of treating drug addiction as a legal problem instead of a social one.
https://www.dea.gov/data-and-statistics/staffing-and-budget
https://nida.nih.gov/sites/default/files/images/2023-Drug-od-death-rates-1.jpeg
in the 50 years the US has been having a "war on drugs", the only two things that have increased are the DEA's budget, and the number of people who die each year from drugs.
50 years of arresting users and low-level sellers has done nothing but fill grave yards and prisons.
all this fentanyl sh\*t stems directly from the opioid epidemic from the 90s, and the US position of treating drug addiction as a legal problem instead of a social one.
https://www.dea.gov/data-and-statistics/staffing-and-budget
https://nida.nih.gov/sites/default/files/images/2023-Drug-od-death-rates-1.jpeg
shponglespore 3 points 19h ago
The prison population has also increased by a lot. We're literally the world leader in locking up our own people.
ImaginaryCheetah 1 points 17h ago
the number of incarcerations is actually declining in many states.
1970-2015(ish) was a definite upward trend, but now numbers are actually going down due to changes in state laws.
drug offenses still make up a significant percentage of charges though.
the US in general locks up an astounding number of people... https://www.sentencingproject.org/app/uploads/2022/08/Trends-in-US-Corrections.pdf
1970-2015(ish) was a definite upward trend, but now numbers are actually going down due to changes in state laws.
drug offenses still make up a significant percentage of charges though.
the US in general locks up an astounding number of people... https://www.sentencingproject.org/app/uploads/2022/08/Trends-in-US-Corrections.pdf
Eddie_Savitz_Pizza 10 points 23h ago
The War on Drugs is, has been, and always will be an excuse for the government and law enforcement to invade your privacy under the thinnest of pretexts.
Educational-Ice-319 10 points 1d ago
Normally I find these kinds of articles to be fairly alarmist (see: the fiasco over foreign-government owned-controlled social media bill from earlier this year). This, however, is basically the War on Drugs version of the Patriot Act.
G00b3rb0y 2 points 16h ago
Except wasn’t the RESTRICT Act the digital equivalent of the Patriot Act
InternetPeon 8 points 1d ago
I have been recording all my masturbatory emissions for DEA for seven years just in case this /happened
reaper527 7 points 23h ago
FTA:
>The Cooper Davis Act was introduced by Kansas Republican Sen. Roger Marshall and New Hampshire Democrat Sen. Jeanne Shaheen in March and has been under consideration by the Senate Judiciary Committee for weeks.
classic case of "when politicians from both sides agree, it's not going to be good for the american public".
>The Cooper Davis Act was introduced by Kansas Republican Sen. Roger Marshall and New Hampshire Democrat Sen. Jeanne Shaheen in March and has been under consideration by the Senate Judiciary Committee for weeks.
classic case of "when politicians from both sides agree, it's not going to be good for the american public".
DukeLukeivi 5 points 1d ago
So time to buy VPN stocks, got it.
imgoinglobal 4 points 1d ago
Oh darn I guess we will have to go back to doing drug deals the old fashioned way.
RevLoveJoy 4 points 23h ago
FFS. My entire adult life the rallying cry of let's give up everyone's civil liberties has been to keep some small segment of the populace from getting high. This is a close second for "most unproductive thing done in the USA" right up there with botched invasions of foreign nations. The DEA really need to have their legs swept out from underneath them as they still seem to be of the mindset that their mandate means American's privacy is conditional and negotiable. They have been doing more harm than good for decades.
Unlimitles 5 points 22h ago
What the hell is going on? This is a supreme overreach.
psychadelicbreakfast 1 points 10h ago
You think this isn’t already happening?
Unlimitles 1 points 3h ago
I feel it is yeah, but trying to place it into law is ridiculous.
TrollBot007 3 points 1d ago
Riot in the streets.
ruiner8850 3 points 1d ago
So the actual drug dealers will just use encrypted messages and other forms of communications and this will just be used to spy on everyone else. The only people getting caught will be drug users who don't bother with those things.
kaishinoske1 3 points 1d ago
Seems the DEA is late to party. They might as well join the rest of the alphabet organizations already doing this.
Let’s remember Civil Forfeiture started out as stopping organized crime from able to fund itself. Look where we are now with that.
Let’s remember Civil Forfeiture started out as stopping organized crime from able to fund itself. Look where we are now with that.
sadrealityclown 3 points 22h ago
*Sir, please lay down and spread your cheeks we think there is some drugs and/or weapons in there. We are doing this for your own good.*
unturnedulema 2 points 1d ago
Somewhere in the near future they're gonna force sexting chatbots $1 Eva AI to spy on their users for perversions, I guess.
JubalHarshaw23 2 points 20h ago
Law Enforcement does not want there to be digital privacy. Republicans do not want there to be digital privacy. Democrats that remember phones with cranks on the side do not want digital privacy. Mostly because they have no idea what it is.
iamJAKYL 1 points 1d ago
People assuming they have digital privacy to begin with is a joke. Every keystroke you make is logged and recorded and stored. Everything.
doctorwhatag 1 points 1d ago
How will they track drug addicts? Drug addicts and drug dealers will simply communicate via VPN with encrypted messages, and the authorities will only have the means to monitor innocent people. Agents masquerading as fake dealers remain the only way to track a drug addict
clemontdechamfluery -1 points 1d ago
What privacy? If you’re online and using a companies “free” or paid products, you’ve probably signed away all your privacy rights by accepting the T&C of use.
crusoe 1 points 1d ago
The DEA would be inundated with marijuana use reports
Powder_Blue_Stanza 1 points 1d ago
In Bad Country, the regime forces utility providers to track and snitch on citizens’ activities to further clamp down on civil liberties, justifying budgets stolen from schools and hospitals to fund divisions of jackbooted thugs.
mrbungle100 1 points 1d ago
Patriot act already did that
GagOnMacaque 1 points 1d ago
Funny, drugs are legal in many states and countries.
Mastasmoker 1 points 23h ago
Anyone know of any VPNs that can handle 1Gb symetrical connections?
WhatTheZuck420 1 points 23h ago
AT&T already spys on every one of their customers
PandaCheese2016 1 points 22h ago
“Psst, ya’ll want some drugs?”
Reddit Admin: This is like the 9000th report I’ve to file to the gov this morning.
Reddit Admin: This is like the 9000th report I’ve to file to the gov this morning.
Imadethistomakejokes 1 points 20h ago
These goal posts sure do keep moving.
Chicago_Synth_Nerd_ 1 points 20h ago
So when tech companies screw up just like the cops do, do the tech companies realize that the same stand your ground and self defense laws are gonna screw them?
shavemejesus 1 points 20h ago
What does the DEA do again?
SimonGray653 1 points 17h ago
Well.
Anytime the EU makes me happy with a good decision, the United States government always makes me disappointed when they do something unpopular.
Anytime the EU makes me happy with a good decision, the United States government always makes me disappointed when they do something unpopular.
EmbarrassedHelp 1 points 1h ago
Wait until you learn about how the EU has their 'Chat Control' proposal being spearheaded by people like Ashton Kutcher.
https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/posts/chat-control/
https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/posts/chat-control/
SimonGray653 1 points 43m ago
Just like I said while ago, the reverse happens too.
So when anytime the EU makes a horrible decision, the United States makes an excellent decision.
So when anytime the EU makes a horrible decision, the United States makes an excellent decision.
SimonGray653 1 points 43m ago
Honestly both groups go back and forth making horrible or excellent decisions.
SwagginsYolo420 1 points 17h ago
Legalize all the drugs already and stop wasting taxpayer money on failed drug war.
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